I am a long-time user of Cubase Pro. For some time now I write music for classical symphonic instruments - I mainly use Vienna Symphonic Library instruments. The scores are often rather complicated.
I’m convinced that for this kind of work it is advisable to use Dorico instead of Cubase, because I prefer to write directly in the score and also because Cubase does not always/automatically follow the rules of music theory. This (writing in Cubase) regularly creates frustration and loss of time.
So I recently tried the trial version of Dorico. But I was put off by the complexity of the program. Perhaps this is due to my approach. Therefore, here is my question:
WHAT IS THE FASTEST AND SMOOTHEST WAY TO LEARN TO WORK IN DORICO?
It must be taken into account that my projects are pretty complex, and I cannot interrupt this work for months, to first learn to use Dorico.
Is there some kind of tutorial? Or are there online courses? Or contact addresses where you can go with specific questions and receive very quick and targeted help?
I noticed ‘Introduction to Dorico for Finale users’ on YouTube. Is there a comparable video for Cubase Pro users?
All of the above! There’s a QuickStart tutorial in the Help pages. There are lots of YouTube videos – a quick search for Cubase-related Dorico videos brings up plenty:
It would be good if you explained what your approach is, in particular for the following:
Dynamics.
Overall balance of orchestration, or balance through mixing.
Importance of score layout, ensemble setup etc…
Printability, export PDF.
And when it comes to Dorico in particular, what actions exactly pose a challenge? Is it note entry for example? Is it entering dynamics? Handling a2, a3? Instrument balance in general? Further modifying MIDI? Setting up the endpoint configuration and sounds?
I am a long term Cubase user who made the switch to Dorico for writing scores. It’s certainly a much better experience than Cubase for doing that.
There are some things in Dorico that have parallels in Cubase. The mixer in Dorico and the key editor are similar. But otherwise it’s a totally different experience.
The best way to learn Dorico is through tutorials and documents. Just jumping in and trying things out without understanding the design concepts is likely going to be frustrating.
A good place to start is the first steps guide mentioned above.
The transition unavoidably takes time and will surely impact your workflow. There is a lot to learn and it’s a very powerful application. From time to time it’s necessary to step back from immediate tasks to study how Dorico has implemented some particular features. This can feel frustrating at the time, but it really helps, even in the short term.
The core design approach of Dorico is to allow you to configure the software so that it does things how you want them without having to adjust things manually on the score. This is a very different approach from Cubase.
The second main aspect is that elements on the score are ‘semantic’ - they do things, they are not just text. So it’s important the first time you want to enter something, a gliss for example, that you don’t enter it as a graphical line, but investigate how to enter a proper gliss symbol.
So, it will take time and energy. Is it worth it? For me, absolutely.
OK. Here’s my workflow:
Composing (I’d love to write directly in the score instead of in a Key Editor), orchestrating, performing, scoring. So it’s not that I want to use Dorico for creating the scores of my Cubase-projects, I’d like to use Dorico from the start, since I find Cubase not really ideal for writing music in a more classical way.
Do you like me to specify further?
I can add that I also like to perform my music with (mainly) VSL-instruments. In that department, timing, dynamics, articulation, colors etc. are really important. I often make changes to the composition, in regard of those parameters (timing, dynamics…)
Aha! So, recording and performing is important. Ok, that explains it for me. I just found it a bit strange at first.
Rationale
(finding Dorico more complicated than Cubase I mean), because if one looks at it from purely a scoring viewpoint, Dorico is extremely straightforward conceptually. (Put together an ensemble, begin composing a score. Meanwhile in Cubase, there are many abstractions, routing, tracks, expression maps or not, MIDI and continuous controllers in general etc. etc.)
playback is an area that needs thinking about in your case.
For myself, the days of manually adjusting articulations, note start positions, lengths, and velocities and editing automation lanes in Cubase have gone forever.
Everything is driven from the score. In my latest 80 minute piece I made perhaps 10 edits to automation in Dorico.
However, playback quality by this route may still not be good enough for everyone and some people still use DAWs for final renders. It’s possible to export Midi or MusicXML from Dorico and import into Cubase but doing that will reduce the benefits of Dorico somewhat.
The best quality of playback I have achieved has been by using Noteperformer in conjunction with Sample libraries from Spitfire and EW.
Noteperformer have some demos on their website, including ones generated by VSL, if you’d like to take a listen. Noteperformer’s quality of rendition is also getting better from release to release.
To Richard Townsend:
Thanks for both your responses, Richard. I think you perfectly get what I mend. I’ll probably have to follow the same path and indeed also think about extra performer software. I’d like to maybe come back to you, when I experience more specific issues during this process. Is that OK? I will buy Dorico shortly from now and start exploring. I guess it will take at least a few weeks for me…
To Richard Townsend.
Good to know! And I definitely need to buy Dorico, since I really want to write directly in the score. Working in Cubase’s Key Editor is just too confusing - constantly… And with Steinberg’s anniversary, now is the moment. I will just need to invest some time. Also, at this moment, I’m working on a project for string orchestra, with just five staffs - I guess also simplify the transition… Thanks again, Richard.
Some advice when transferring a MIDI project from Cubase to Dorico – spend some time on getting the MIDI import right and import one section (winds, brass, etc) at a time. Check the instrument types that are detected. If your Cubase tracks are called ‘Flute 1’ etc then it should do the right thing (if they are called ‘VSL fl2 short ff’ then you’ll need to set the detected instruments manually)
It’s worth watching these videos – the first gives an overview of MIDI import and the second is a deeper walkthrough of how to use it in practise.
Once you’ve got the data into Dorico then you’ll need to learn about Playback Templates to find out how to drive VSL.
hi … in any case to best manage the dynamics … the attack of the notes … the length of the notes etc … (if you want to create all these things in a personal way on each note) … Cubase is indispensable … if then you are satisfied with all the programmed automatisms, Dorico is also fine …
Hello Paul. I have the impression that you indeed know what you are talking about. But I also have the impression that you didn’t exactly understood my question. So please read a bit further. I’m guessing you probably can help me with that as well.
It’s not my goal to transfer finished projects from Cubase to Dorico. My goal is to work from the start in Dorico for my new projects, that is to use Dorico from the first stage, which is composing/orchestrating. I would like to do that from the start by using the VSL instruments, because I like to perform the project as a demo, as realistic as possible with as much expression as possible - coming from subtle nuances in overall tempo, timing of every note, dynamics (overall as well as for each performer/section) and coloring. With Cubase, I can get very far in the expression department. But I had a classical music education and I find Cubase a real burden for the composing work. I’d love to be able to write directly in the score, which offers a real overview and which takes the rules of music theory into account.
So my question related to how swiftly I can start doing this job in Dorico, so far having used Cubase solely and also how I can get the best possible performance out of Dorico. It’s also important to know, that I often decide to make (subtle) changes in the orchestration, throughout the performance. That’s also I’d like to use the best possible VST instruments from the start of my work…
Thanks in advance for your ideas.
It would seem to me that the complexity which Dorico offers would be well suited to the complexity of your projects then, no?
I feel that Dorico can be complex, but it’s organized and clean in such a way that the complexity needn’t get in the way while working. I almost always keep the panels hidden and just use the simple popover shortcuts plus ‘J’ for the jump bar to tell the program what I would like to do. It enables me to do complex things, but in a simple way.
It’s hard to tell just by your screenshots, but if I had to guess like most people composing in a DAW, the complexity is likely compounded by a separation of articulations and techniques, longs and shorts and legato on separate tracks as is often the case for fine-tune editing and mixing?
If this is the case, I would highly recommend looking into NotePerformer and the NPPEs (which include a few for VSL). This would allow you to write for a each instrument on a single staff (or “track”), and you can simply switch or combine techniques and articulations on the same staff in a musical way as you would write music for live players. No more separating longs and shorts and staccato and legato onto different tracks. So this, inherently, would simplify things greatly – if this is your current approach, that is (again I’m taking an educated guess here since that is a common DAW workflow).
In any case NP+NPPE is worth checking out, because it frees you up to simply write music, and handles all the back-end technical issues of timing and balance for you automatically.
