Hello,
Hello, what is the easiest way to vertically align pedal signs as follows?
The current state is as follows:
If I understand correctly, I should manually algin each of them. Am I right? … Oh no…
Yes, But - consider using a pedal line, with retakes, rather than Ped * (which is very old fashioned!)
1 Like
It’s Chopin’s Berceuse and all editions (that I am aware of) past and present adhere to the older style for Chopin’s music for authenticity and because there can be doubt as to whether he really intends overlapping pedal in many cases.
Dorico is actually doing a better job with the pedal indications placement than the Breitkopf Complete Works edition that you are using as your source. It is much clearer to the eye if the pedal signs stay approximately equal distance from the lowest notes in the lower staff or the bottom line of the staff if there are no notes below the staff. Not even the Ped and the asterisk have be be aligned. In the first edition and the manuscript copy that contains the pedal indications nothing is aligned. All the symbols follow the lowest left hand notes.
You might just let Dorico do its thing with the pedal signs.
1 Like
That’s as absurd as suggesting all Goethe texts can only transcribed in gothic fonts because they are authentic.
2 Likes
This is Dorico’s interpretation. I believe it might be an improvement to slightly shift the moment of retaking to the left, but I would not touch them.
By opting for modern overlapping pedal indications you have decided that Chopin intended overlapping pedal. But it is not clear that this is correct. In fact, many would contend the opposite is the case, judging from the larger spaces between the asterisks and ped. indications in the manuscript where the music is less crowded. So fine editions use Chopin’s more ambiguous indications to allow the player to make their own decisions.
3 Likes
Now … what is authenticity?! 
Yes, it is actually leaving that ambiguity, as @John_Ruggero pointed out.
2 Likes
From my studies, I do not believe Chopin ever used sim. to indicate continuing patterns of pedalling, sim. being a later editorial shortcut. Therefore, we can draw no conclusions from the absence of sim.. It is well documented that what Chopin wrote and what he played are entirely different and so I am not convinced that we can read too much in the spacing of pedal marks.
Although Chopin wrote no treatises on piano playing, Karol Mikuli was a pupil of Chopin and produced editions based on his lessons with Chopin. Some are reprinted by Dover from Mikuli’s original editions published after Chopin’s death but still considered authoritative. However, they are not accurate either. Take bar 24 from Op. 26 no.2:
There is no reason for the second E3 to be orphaned from pedalling.
In any case, returning to the Berceuse Op 27 quoted above, Mikuli only pedals on the first half of each bar at the start. Near the end, there are instances of Ped. and the asterisk not being aligned. Authenticity does not equate with consistency.
Hmm… Apologies for hijacking. Perhaps this would have better been written on notat.io
Chopin’s pedal indications are a very interesting topic and of great significance for pianists, so I wish you would voice your ideas at Notat.io where we could continue this discussion.
But there is a reason to observe the rest in the RH which you’d lose by pedalling through it.
3 Likes
Chopin most often used the pedal as a means of holding low bass notes that can not be held by the fingers. This was a relatively new way of writing at the time and caused him to use many more pedal indications than was customary. Chopin probably didn’t view the pedal as a means of “cementing” the music together by means of constant overlapping pedal and relied on his fingers to apply the necessary legato “glue” although at times he does use it for special effects that call for long stretches of constant pedaling, just as Beethoven did in the first movement of op. 27 no 2.
As @Vaughan_Schlepp points out, Mikuli (who was a student of Chopin) is suggesting sacrificing the length of the bass note for the sake of the right hand rest which sets off the following syncopated melody note. However, the manuscript mainly positions the asterisk under the last sixteenth note of each group (including the spot shown in the Mikuli above) It is therefore possible that Chopin made slight breaks between most of the left hand groups and used overlapping and more extensive pedaling in only a few areas of the Nocturne op. 27 no. 2. This way of playing can lend clarity to a performance.
One thing I would like to point out is the second inversion of the triad and pedalling. The pedal can avoid the second inversion of the triad or make it. Sometimes it might not be ideal…