I do stop working with DORICO

I can confirm that Dorico consistently interprets that diminished 7th drop with a Db in MIDI step-time entry. Although the behaviour of the algorithm is strange in this case, the rest of the input was correct for me. From start to finish, this little project took about 7 minutes, and that included ctrl-selecting all Db’s to change them to C#'s. Looks great too! Although it should be reported, I hardly found it onerous. I left one Db in for good measure at bar 47.

I will ask Michael (the developer responsible for the MIDI spelling algorithms) to take a look at this when he gets a chance, though he is currently hard at work on fingering.

Yeah, that looks great!!

Here’s my rough input - without any corrections!
Peter
Bach Invention 4.zip (284 KB)

For me the known bug on mac where refreshing the screen isn’t done is the most disturbing problem. It’s almost impossible to work with Dorico because of this.

As Daniel says, changing these back to what they should be is quite easy (though I couldnt make alt+= work on my German keyboard); but should not be necessary in a simple piece such as this. The e-sharp at the end of bar 49 is very curious!

David

Rerel -

I’m finding that clicking on the Engrave tab, then clicking back on Write usually makes screen refresh work properly. Occasionally I need to repeat this sequence of clicks once or twice before the problem clears itself up.

Yes this is annoying, but compared to the constant crashing of Sibelius and Finale I’m finding Dorico to be a more solid product - at least so far.

Hi everybody,
when will the trills be supported during play mode / exportation?
At the moment I’m working hard on special editions of baroque music (Bach / Händel) for my pupils and I need it urgently to feed them with audios to support their rehearsals…

Greets

Peter

Hmh, you wrote, that you stop working with Dorico until Version 2.xxx will be released. What changed your mind to continue working with the current version of Dorico?

Equally to the point, why are you hijacking your own thread? :smiley:

Hi HeiPet and David-p,
I must admit that - the more I d o work with Dorico, the more problems fade.The workflow impresses me.
Shall I open a new thread called “I do go on working with Dorico”?
If so, please tell me!
p.s. Any solution of the trill problem mentioned above???

Greets
Peter

Maybe change the title of that thread… for instance «Why I have been tempted to stop working with Dorico… but I did not !»

1 Like

"At the press of a button, Dorico produces playback and audio files so realistic you can hardly tell they’re not live recordings. "

(What Is Dorico: Discover All the Features | Steinberg)

Apparently I’m not pressing the right button.

Every notation program seems to have said that for at least 20 years. I think it’s probably my ears - I obviously spend too much time listening to live performances (and not recordings of live performances!)

Agreed. On one of the Facebook orchestration groups people were raving about Cinematic Studio Solo Strings recently. I had a listen and thought it sounded terrible (like every other string VSTi I’ve heard).

VSTi pianos are just about approaching realism but strings are still miles off, IMO.

Me, too. But then again, with a bold claim like that, they should make a little effort sound at least a good as what’s in the market, or at least deliver on their promises. From their Dorico Features In Depth:

Score interpretation

  • Automatic generation of tempo map from tempo marks in the project
    Automatic generation of dynamic profile from immediate and gradual
    dynamics in the project
    Automatic playback of staccato, accent, tenuto, marcato articulations
    Automatic playback of slurs and legato playing techniques
    Automatic playback of grace notes, including interpretation of unslashed
    grace notes as appoggiatura and slashed grace notes as acciaccatura
    Automatic playback of single and multiple note tremolos
    Playing techniques result in changes of VST Expression Map†
    Built-in editor for creating and editing VST Expression Maps, including
    import of existing Cubase Expression Maps
    Humanization options for timing and dynamics to provide a more naturalsounding
    performance

They even tell me “Playing techniques result in changes of VST Expression Map” is a feature “unique to Dorico and not found in any other commercial desktop scoring software.”

These were supposed to be things that were in “free updates over the next few months.”

Maybe they’ll surprise me, but after the questions I asked, the team gave one of their “we have a lot priorities” answers and Scoring Notes is reporting that it likely be a paid upgrade after the next drum-notation update.

And before we see a bunch posts about “I don’t care about playback, I only work with live musicians…” please bear in mind that not everyone has full orchestra at their disposal day and night, and nobody put a gun to Steinberg’s head to make promises about score interpretation. I certainty didn’t, I just paid my money and took my chances like the rest. At the moment, in an orchestral score, Dorico doesn’t even pick the right patches of the player they have, much less come close to the market leaders in score interpretation.

I’m just doing what that document invited me to do: “You can shape the future development of Dorico by engaging with the
development team either through the Making Notes blog or the Dorico user forum.”

The responses from the development I saw give the impression that playback is a “someday we’ll get serious about it, but don’t expect it in the near future”.

I’m not looking for them to reach true realism, but they should be able to do as well as Noteperformer (which is using less than a fifth of the samples Halion loads up.) I don’t think it’s VSTi issues–I think it’s fundamental issues in how Dorico is presenting articulations and performance to the sampler.

Yes, I can (and do) use a DAW to do better mockups. However, my workflow for orchestra starts with the score, not the DAW.

At this point, I’m very excited about how Dorico looks, but for orchestral scores, it’s sound is very lacking given the promises they have made (and are still making) and score interpretation and playback.

The thing is: all of those features are implemented. It’s just that that’s only part of what would be needed to be cutting edge, and that it doesn’t take into account the quality of the sampling library.

I agree the bundled Halion samples aren’t exactly stellar. But then “free stuff is often worth exactly what you paid for it.”

At least the Dorico library is relatively small, compared with another product that comes with nearly 70Gb of “free” samples that don’t sound any better, to my ears.

Eventually, the “you can fix every playback problem with an even bigger sample library” strategy will run out of steam (I hope!) and sound creators will actually start thinking again - physical modelling works much better for “realistic” playback even if the individual notes might not sound so beautiful, IMO. That seems to be the way NotePerformer has attacked the problem - though it still sounds like it’s years away from reaching its full potential.

I seem to remember that Sibelius was long delayed by the effort needed to change from General Midi style playback to the current “sound world” architecture. At least Dorico is building on a playback engine and technology (VST) that already exists - but the amount of work to integrate that with the notation seems to have been under-estimated!

I think physical modelling will more or less catch up with free-vibrating instruments: piano, percussion, plucked strings. However, I’m very skeptical that any instrument dependent on continuous stimulation from the player will ever be properly physically modelled… I’d really love to be proven wrong, though.

I don’t know if they plan to tackle the currently issued library sample, but if they do, I hope they poll us on what various items need the most attention.
There are samples that are passable in the ensemble sense, other samples that just need specific attention in certain areas or additions. Probably one or two that should just be banished to the pit of damnation or the Kazoo orchestra.