Apologize if this is rudimentary, but could use a quick expert help here;
I am trying to simplify my workflow an rebuild a few inherited templates. If I have a few stereo stems sending out to groups, but at the same time I want to / need to monitor the summed result ( it will be stereo ) so how can I also feed the " monitor sum" output ?
I had an idea to set up sends from the individual stem groups to this monitor output bus, but will a post fader send include all limiting that I have applied post fader on each ?
Or…is there another way ? Direct routing to master monitor bus ? Does that apply post fader of the stems ?
And…how do I set that up from the project screen ??
I know…so basic, but I’m wrapped up in different types of work and realized what I did before did not sum up right !
What about pan law ? All these will be exported to MC as stems and I hate to know the editors with mess with anything level wise.
I have it set up roughly that way. My groups contain “food groups” of sounds, DLG, ADR, MUSIC, PFX etc. All of the groups go by default to my main output, but also via Direct Output to my stems which are not groups but also “outputs”. To my knowledge any and all processing that is applied on the groups end up on my outputs. I’ve never measured a higher peak for example than what I’ve had post fader on the group.
Also, I set all of this up in the VST Connections window, not in the project window.
Yeah, I started trying to wrap my head around it and it annoyed the hell out of me. If I remember correctly the first slot of the “Direct Outputs” is the “normal” output, and it defaults to whatever Pan Law you set. Every subsequent output in that rack is however subject to mix-down rules. I personally think this is stupid. If we’re looking at sends each send acts exactly the same way unless you specify something else (i.e. they all mix-down to mono the same way, they all are pre-fade unless you specify it etc). But with Direct Outputs you could then have the first mix-down according to one set of rules (pan law) and the remaining 7 according to the standard. No visual indication that this is the case. Completely illogical. You can search for a thread that I started on it.
Bottom line is just put a bunch of meters in various places and run a test tone to double-check you’re getting the right level. I currently have Pan Law set to “Equal Power” and that seems to work for me (unless I remember incorrectly).
Just reading and thinking about all this logically turns my brain to mush.
Just a humble excuse though…we have a long holiday weekend here in Toronto and I did all my deliveries on time, so I’m chilling with a ( quite a few ) glass of red wine
So in your opinion if the final mix is stereo, but I need to deliver stereo stems to them only ( the idea here is to make them sum to spec…and that is why I am trying to set up a “master monitor output” calibrated to specs without any processing )
All limiting and automation will be applied to the “stem masters”, which are actually Nuendo groups going out on physical IOs.
Where should the group ( stems ) masters be send to ?
To their own output ? Or the the stereo master ? …which is in my case is only a QC assurance.
Then…these stereo stems will be batch exported to the MC guys.
BTW…any advice on which TP limiter would be a more transparent choice ? I have the option between Nuendo 7 brickwall or Nugen ISL2
Dude… It’s the right thing to do! If I wasn’t on painkillers I’d open a bottle myself…
I understand the confusion. Let me put it like this - there are really sort of three “levels”:
Audio Tracks - whatever I get from the editors or create myself, reedited dialog, sound effects, pfx whatever… These audio tracks get automation and the full treatment. These all go out to the Groups:
Group Channels - all the dialog audio tracks go to my Dialog Group, all my fx go to the FX Group, etc. These group tracks get processing on inserts, but it’s usually moderate compression or gentle EQ, and a brickwall limiter in the last slot to prevent overs. Typically not a lot of rides on these if at all. These Group channels are NOT the final stems in my setup, instead they get sent to Output Channels. So it might look like this:
(group / output)
DIalog -> Full Mix
DIalog -> Mix Minus
DIalog -> Dialog Stem
ADR -> Full Mix
ADR -> Mix Minus
ADR -> Dialog Stem
Narration -> Full Mix
Narration -> Narration Stem
Music -> Full Mix
Music -> Mix Minus
Music -> Music Stem
Output Channels - then get no processing on inserts, and no automation. And when I then batch export I’ll export only from these output channels, not from the groups. In addition, since I’m using control room and since I don’t have to none of these outputs (except maybe the main?) are actually routed to a physical output. They just exist without going anywhere.
Control Room: For monitoring I typically just choose the most essential stems / mixes I need to listen to. So I have for example Full Mix, Mix Minus, M and E, Dialog Stem, and some others. So now I can quickly switch between the different mixes and stems at the click of a button, and hear exactly what I’ll render.
I also get that it may seem like a convoluted use of the “output channel” type, but for some reason it makes sense to me. Just the knowledge that I’m always rendering from the output of that type of channel, and in addition that I never ever touch them, gives me some sort of peace of mind. From a practical standpoint it’s also good because it’s easy to use the various visibility commands to show/hide those types. I have mixer 4 setup for only groups/outputs for example, so it’s easy to check that signals are going where they need to. And should outputs appear in another mixer it’s fast to just deselect them as a track type to get rid of them all at once. Plus as a track type they’re all bright red, meaning “don’t touch”. In addition it’s easy to create a setup that matches a network’s delivery specs and save/recall it. That’s because contrary to groups we get the dropdown menu for outputs and I can just select “SNI 2012” for example and that’ll load all stems/mixes I need…
I know this was a lot of text, and I’m sorry I can’t explain it better or with fewer words, perhaps if I had been drunk… or had more coffee… really though, what’s needed is an Old Fashioned…
I use the Nuendo 7 stock brickwall. Transparent. Does the job 100%. Love it.
Great to chat in the late hours …BTW, where exactly are you ?
OK, now I slowly discovering my issue here;
See, I do not use the Nuendo “control room” at all !
Just because I have a hardware console for too many reasons to mention here.
I had to use a multi channel output bus up til last night, to be able to monitor my “stem masters”
It is actually working great, using child buses, as it seems this is the only way I can send out group masters to monitor.
Just now, I’ve tried to assign individual groups to physical IO outs, but that does not work.
So…next I’ll create wider busses, more child’s…one of which will need to be my “summing master” monitor.
I can easily solo that on the board. ( all levels are fully calibrated before each session )
Hoping that would solve my summing issue ( which is actually minor, but scared that the editors will slap some crap on it )
Ah, I see. I only have 6 outputs and no console/controller so I use CR for monitoring duties. Apart from the dumb redesign of the GUI it’s fantastic. I think the limit is 8 monitoring sources, but it’s pretty much all I need.
I have discovered a couple of questionable misses while working in N7 just last week…
None of them are showstoppers, however strange. I would like to hear your comment/s.
Exported some batches of stems. Chose the naming scheme and adjusted the columns .
The resulting files bare that name + suffix.
After that on another mix I am exporting regular ( non batch ) L-R stereo files.
Now…there are named similar with all channel, project name, etc between the intended file name and the suffix.
I have never seen that before. How can I eliminate the extra words ??
Of course I can rename them before sending.
I have in and out locators for the export range.
In all previous versions the locator start indicator in the transport always agreed with the in point of the project timeline. 1:00:00;00 TC in my example.
Now in N7 I see 0:00:00;00 !! It does locate OK and on subsequent saves of versions it will again display correct.
That is a bug.
I’m sorry but need to investigate this naming scheme a bit further…I do apologize.
Think I have most of it figured out. The settings dialog has this (hardly visible) minus signs. That clears out some of my confusion.
Say I’m batch exporting two stereo outputs which are actually my final “stems” with limiter on both. That is it, no automation or other inserts.
Now, the audio channels on which these stems assigned to to output are also being batch exported , although I did not select them.