I study music frame but how to do this?

Is there somebody can help me to understand how to put a music frame inside a flow in another on another one ( I don’t want to split the flow into multiple other).
More explicit a picture (with nothing musical in it, just to give an example):


the question is : what must I write to have the red portion of the right pages on the first page?
here is the file if need:
music_frame.dorico (1.1 MB)
Thanks in advance

You need to specify Flow 2 in the specified frame, and to do that I had to change it from a Master Frame to a Local frame. I also had to remove the first frame break on the excerpt in the left hand page to get the entire passage to show–no idea why.

music_frame_altered.dorico (1.1 MB)

2 Likes

@Derrek
thank you very much for your time
… but there are two things that are still unclear for a month.
I’ll start with the first one first: I think there is a basic concept of “music frame” that I don’t understand at all. I thought that we could copy an extract of music from another place for example from another flow as we had constructed it… but obviously not because if I open your dorico file I see that the extracts are not no longer the same (notes added) and we have to delimit them again in the first page??!!… and not so easy because everything influences each other??!! I watched a few videos but didn’t learn anything more.
Here is a picture

You are correct about the extra notes in the middle frame.

If I were doing this, I would likely use multiple flows and use page templates rather than page overrides (which I strenuously avoid in my own work).

Hope you find a solution that works for you.
Perhaps one of our frames luminaries has some alternate ideas. Thanks, incidentally, for including both an image and the original demo file in your posts.

@Derrek thank you again for your time
…actually the solution of using music frames doesn’t work as I thought and is still a mystery for me …or maybe Dorico has a little problem with that!!! When I posted my problem, I had tested your method with LB 1,2, and flow selection but I only had the possibility of LB-1 in the frame order why??!! after closing Dorico to do something else and after read your post, I reopened my attached project and there I saw that I had the choice LB 1,2
like here:
frame_order
But in my exemple I’m surprised that I can see in frame order 1,2 but not 3

I’m not sure exactly what you want… but if you want the music in the red Frame to appear in the location you show, then one way is to have the Flow 2 start with this music. (Currently it is the 7th measure of the 2nd flow). Then make sure Layout options for the “Sampler” layout [Page Setup, Flows] that you enable New flows: “Allow on existing page”. Also remove all Page overrides for the Layout “Sampler”. I also noticed quite a bit of System and Frame breaks. I deleted these and let Dorico “do its thing”, otherwise you can end up working against the program. With this foundation set, flows will just go from the end of flow 1 to flow 2 on the same page seamlessly. This is a lot less complicated than trying to do this manually.

Here is the result I get… (not sure if it is closer to what you want). You probably need to reset regular barlines where there are final ones.


This shows the simplicity (default) of the page using one Master frame chain using all Flows. No need to select different flows, frame orders, etc. (unless I’m completely not understanding what you’re trying to achieve).

Hi @Dup Some thoughts:

The use of flows combined with frame chains is very powerful. But as suggested there are case that are much simpler solved with just flows.

The frames with the same name that exist in the same page, are numbered by Dorico (and you can change their numbering in the page, if you have more than one with the same name in the same page), on the next page the numbering starts from 1 again…, so the music “flows” from the first page (following the numeration of the same named frames) into the subsequent page (also following the numeration of the same named frames, that starts from 1 on the new page). If you delete a frame that was nr. 1 in a pager change its attribution, while there is another frame with the same name as nr.2, Dorico immediately renumbers the latter to nr.1. To have the option of renumbering to nr.3 you need at least three exact named frames in the same page.

To mix M (master) music frames with L (layout or local) music frames can also be harder to manage because L frames will only appear on the pages where you drag them, while M frames are governed by the Master page, but because of the pages overrides this can become very hard to trace…

2 videos that helped me a lot to understand how to use frame chains are these:

@musicmaven1 and @Christian_R
[google translation]
Thanks to both of you, I’ve already watched the videos several times, and I think I understand what’s in them but they don’t refer to what I want to do. There is never the case of a flow (apart from the 1st) containing several music frames, in which we want to choose one and which we want to put in a specific place in flow 1.
But maybe this is impossible or I haven’t understood the basis of music frames
But I think that my lack of knowledge of the English language does not allow me to express what I want well…so I am starting again in another way: I want to make a collection of exercises. Before starting I want to understand the principle well, That’s why I posted a Dorico file.
Preambule

  • the exercises must be able to be reversed or moved if I realize that the difficulty after feedback from my students is not very well adapted. and changed or incorporated text if ever.
  • As there will be a lot of exercises, I would not like to end up with a horizontal scroll of 150 flows and above all what is imperative: I want to be able to export in a single xml and/or audio and/or midifile.
    In reference of the dorico files and picture of the first topic of this post:
    This is why I thought about using music frames, but my vision and understanding of music frames for me is this: maybe I’m all wrong??!! I see a music frame as a sticker with content and a layout. I wanted to create these stickers in different flows (3-4) per flow and then place them in my first page = flow 1
    I thought that it would then be possible in this flow of flow 01 to draw a music frame and to call for example the “sticker 2” of flow 02 by drawing a music frame and ern writing “LB - frame order 2 - flow 02” and then if I want the sticker 03 of the flow 03 “LC - frame order 03 -flow03”
    But obviously from what I have experienced, it only works well if there is only one sticker (music frame) per flow…because otherwise the content of the stickers called is no longer the same and the layout either!!!
    I also experienced that I had bugs. When I sent the dorico file from my post on which I was studying by drawing a music frame in flow 01 in which I wanted to call a sticker from flow 02 I had no choice:
    Snag_3aaf9e

But when @Derrek answer …I reopen my project after closig Dorico and I had a choice:
frame_order
But don’t why I can’t see with the same logic the number 3 of the third music frame of the flow02 so I can’t put it in my flow 01??

@Dup,

I applaud your working with the videos to learn more about frames. That will serve you well going forward. But I wonder if you also need to learn more about flows, at least as it applies to this project and what you are trying to accomplish here.

The following is a one-page excerpt from a 75-flow project I helped engrave using (initially) the very first version of Dorico (as a learning project as much as anything else), and which I have gone back to several times as Dorico has matured over the years.

Perhaps taking a look at how I set up the project will be helpful to you.

RecorderBook210214_samplePage.zip (1.6 MB)

With the project arranged as it is, I can swap the order of flows as I wish should the sequence prove less than idea for the students.

I have a feeling that you you are having a misconception, but I am not sure, so please apologize if I am something that’s obvious to you. It’s about hierarchy of flows and music frames.

  • a flow is containing a chunk of music. this can be just a fraction of a bar up to a whole symphonic work.
  • a frame is a “window” which is displaying music (which Dorico stores in flows). They are higher in hirarchy, as you can chose to only display certain flows within a music frame. (I have the feeling that you are trying to add music frames to your flow, which is thinking backwards about the concepts).

Dorico handles music frames like this:

  • There ID starts with a letter L or M (see below) . Then they get assigned a second letter that is just an ID. Music Frames with the same ID-Letter are connected. Music (stored in flows) “flows” through only connected music frames.
  • Layout Frames: these frames are created directly in engrave mode and start with the letter L. Dorico does not automatically create new pages with more frames if the music is longer than the Layout or other flows would still have to be displayed.
  • Master frames: these are created in pages templates and start with the letter M. Dorico does automatically create new pages if it is necessary to show the music until the end of all flows to be displayed is reached

So you see how flows are displayed is a result on how music frames are set up. You cannot add music frames to flows.

All in all, from what I understand, I think having a regular music frame with flows in a way that @Derrek proposed to you seems to me what you want to achieve?

@Derrek
Great, great thank you for your interest in my case. I use your method often but downloading it, opening it and trying something in my direction proved to me that it wasn’t going to work.
my idea to try to bypass lot of files was to construct like this:

I wanted to use music frames so as not to separate files but by reconstructing your file with what I wanted to do (see my dorico file in attachment) when I want to export in xml or midi it does not remove the problem and nothing is merged into the 1st page with all the exercises, you can’t select everything either (something that would have suited me well)
RecorderBook210214_samplePage_my.dorico (1.1 MB)

So I’m not going to escape this: a lot of files
Snag_10008bd
Still great thanks

@Dup - I think you are close, though. You can export audio and all flows become one mp3 or wav file.

And you can merge flows into a new flow called, for example, “Total” and then export the “Total” flow as one xml or midi file. This “Total” flow could be saved in a separate project if you wish, or conveniently in the original project. You could make it so you never hear or see this flow and it would be used only for the purpose of exporting a single xml or midi file.

I also thought that then I could select all the notes on this page and transpose to have a version in Bb, in Eb…
I actually wanted to find a way to find a workaround to merge several flows in one unique but obviously it’s possible

It’s something I’m looking for long time How to do this? Never found! How do you do?

You may already realize this, but the audio in the zip file is one audio file.

Yes I saw ! but for audio only. bouh!!! but other? I have student who have musescore so one unique xml is needed. What about merge flow? Never see that…relly possible?

How will your students use this in Musescore? Do you ask them to change the music in some way. For most worksheets a PDF handout would suffice. I expect you have something different in mind.

Often folks submit a problem without letting us know the whole story. I expect in many cases that is understandable, but it does get complicated.

Yes, what @Derrek says is true! Also, your students could use Dorico SE for free. It allows them to compose, play and print their own sheet music and it would be pretty easy to open up your projects there.

To merge flows you need to copy the music from each flow into the “Total” flow. It doesn’t take too long. For each flow, select first note then choose Edit-Select to end of flow / Copy / Paste into the “Total” flow adding each flow’s notes to the “Total” flow. This would enable you to export one xml file and one midi file instead of separate files.

Yes - easily done by duplicating a Layout and right-clicking and choosing Clef and Transportation Overrides, although you would need to re-do any added fingering text. (No need to select all notes…etc.) Check out this excellent article on Scoring Notes: