I wish I never invested in Nuendo or Steinberg!

I feel soooo let down by you guys. Its like you don’t ever believe in your own product. That it’s just a day job. Here we are at day 2 NAB the biggest event in promoting your brand to the world and nothing. Not even on your F#$%^&N website. Avid is there Pro Tools 11 everywhere with live world webinar which I watched. on DUC there’s a Avid at NAB 2013 sticky thread. Now I’m not there in person and maybe you have a booth. But where’s all the marketing?

I’m soooo pi$t! at you Steinberg I can’t explain it enough. You’ve just released N6 with great features and supposedly have a fancy new console Nuage. Nothing Nothing Nothing!!! I’m the ONLY person currently (not even any guests) on this forum in the ENTIRE world which says to me nobody is interested in you.

I wish I never invested with Steinberg but alas I’m bloody stuck with you. I can’t afford a change to Pro Tools but if I could I would.

I know Timo and Fredo will just see this as another rant… And prob it will get deleted by admin. The sad thing about it all is I’m superficial because Nuendo IS a great product but I want to feel proud about Steinberg and I’m not. In fact I kind of hate Steinberg. I want more professionals to like it and use it too. I want Steinberg to beat the drums so I can say “Yeah that’s my team”. When was the last time a major block buster was mix on Nuendo. Just go to http://www.soundworkscollection.com and every Film interview is done with Pro Tools in the background.

You play under dog, 2nd fiddle, so well. There’s such a (I’m sorry to say) “German arrogance” about it all. “Nuendo is way better than everything else, we don’t need to tell people about us, they will come to us and those that don’t we don’t need them anyway” arrrgggggg!

The sooner I drop you the better

… and yet…

My friends who have to maintain multiple PT systems in professional studios say Digi’s actual user support is horrible. I’m guessing Digi puts their money into marketing, Steiny into product (and to a lesser degree, ongoing support).

FWIW, back when I used to be an exhibitor at NAB (about ten years running, for AKG/Orban’s aborted DAW), a modest 20x20 booth could cost a company close to $750k, once you figured everything including union movers, your exhibit stage, flying personnel in and putting them up… That was ten years ago. Today it’s probably closer to a million.

So yes: N6 has some awesome features, while PT 10 is bragging about “features” that have been in Nuendo since version 3. But it’s the bragging that you hear.

750K-1m is a lot (for you and me) but we are talking Big Corporate Companies here. Yamaha and Steinberg. And frankly if that’s were the opposition plays the game and where all the world’s tech media and consumers attention is focused then GET IN THE FREAKEN! GAME.

With some more (this time Bavarian) arrogance :wink: :
You have, unknowingly, almost exactly copied mails I have posted quite regularely over the years 2001 to 2011…
Not anymore…It’s got boring …

I have NO IDEA why SB is constantly missing important occasions to promote Nuendo…
They could have stomped, e.g., Alsihad into a bucket on several occasions with a laughter…
They could put a smile on our faces in making the name Nuendo better known to our customers,
but for some strange reason they just don’t do it.
I have some North German relatives living around the same area SB is situated. They are not at all
like this… they run their companies well with a lot of promotion and advertising efforts.

Not wanting to spend a million+ Dollars on an exhibition is on thing, but there is overall
not enough product promotion going on and that …you said it already: …sucks!

Big K

And here Avid is facing a serious backlash on handling of upgrade costs, requirements and future uncertainties for CPTK users, and where is the crossgrade to Nuendo offer?

Avid routinely gives away public relations failures, and no one capitalizes. I know Steinberg probably has 1/100 the marketing budget Avid does, but it doesn’t take that much money to at least post crossgrade offers and new product announcements on the commercial sections of the most popular forums and their own website.

Another month and this opportunity will have passed. Avid will offer some kind of recanted pricing, and vague promises it probably won’t uphold, and because it is the only other option, most people will accept it, despite the risk.

Yes, it is disappointing. Nuendo has the best potential in the market (with some more extensive bug squashing before releases, and adopting of a few key ProTools standards). Maybe Steinberg just doesn’t have any money for marketing. But there are, and have been many of us over the years that mostly prefer Nuendo over ProTools, and definitely see more value and potential in it. But where is the effort to at least build some “grass roots” buzz from it’s own user base? At least try to make the most of social media - it isn’t a marketing solution, but it is better than nothing.

Last time SB offered a crossgrade it took about 4-6 weeks before they did it. And when they did it ended up being a small link in the lower right of the website that you’d have to know was there before finding it.

This is a fantastic opportunity to get more people using Nuendo. I doubt they’ll use it maximally.

Seems to me there might not be a better time to capitalize, if even another chance. The backlash seems to be much much bigger than with the 10HD upgrade pricing. The only thing keeping Avid from being in serious trouble is that they know the industry sees them as the only option.

The ball is in your court Yamaha-Steinberg. If there was a time to risk a marketing budget and do it very quickly (as in 1-3 weeks), now is the time. I am not talking about just a crossgrade offer but putting some serious ads out there - head to head comparisons - why and how Nuendo can replace ProTools for much of the industry.

The customers that upgrade to 11HD this time will be committed for years to come regardless of what happens in the future. No chance of winning them over later. This will also solidify the requirement to start with ProTools to succeed in post and pro level production, so it will be even harder to depend on new, non-conformist Nuendo buyers to support the product.

Well said Lydiot and csd. Come on Timo prove to us your “Job title” and do something BIG for once. Call who ever the hell in Steinberg and Yamaha and Go for it!!! Top priority number 1

Call the Gearslutz.com guys and do a big promotion with cross grade price, Call SoundonSound and other Mags advertorials. Release Nuage with competitive pricing, Talk to some big names in post Sky Walker, Park Road, Pinewood… and see if you can get them interested in putting their name by it. Do a world wide competition to win a Nuage + Nuendo 6 suite… and like NOW in the next 1-3 weeks

We should start a twittter hash tag #noprotools or some such. I just have been tweeting about how avid just caught up with everyone else. not impressed. I went with Nuendo. Maybe a concerted effort on twitter could help. Lets start or own advertising!
CJ Adams

FWIW, and I am only speaking for myself.

I hate cultivating the “taking advantage of someone else’s mistake” or “capitalizing on someone else’s weak points”.
IMO the dark side of politics has no place in doing business. Instead of throwing trash to your competitors and shamelessly taking advantage of every opportunity to hurt them, I prefer the simple competing in trying to make a better product. Unfortunately that’s the way it goes these days, It’s like we are stuck in one of those reality shows where eliminating your opponent in a tricky way is more important than simply beating him fair and square.

Just my 2 cents and very personal opinion.

Fredo, personally I too dislike negative marketing and that isn’t what I am suggesting. Seizing a marketing opportunity doesn’t have to include being cruel or demeaning. But it does mean that when you see customers leaving a competitor, you don’t sit by and wait for them to return to your competitor. You make yourself visible, but not passively. You have to go out and knock on doors, tell people who you are and why you are the best solution for their needs.

This doesn’t have to be a negative “look how poor ProTools is” approach - no one in their right mind would believe that anyway. ProTools is a great DAW. It is standard for a reason (several actually). Implying otherwise would be self-defeating. Advantageous marketing doesn’t even require mentioning your competition.

Instead, it simply requires pointing out Nuendo’s advantages when people are looking for those advantages: they have a problem with ProTools or the upgrade path, or are unimpressed by features that have been years behind the rest of the market - Nuendo has the solution, and a few enticingly unique goodies of it’s own. It is as simple as that. When people are publicly stating a problem they face, you offer the solution. If you don’t, your competitor will.

Take offline bouce for example: Avid claims, or implies they have perfected offline bouncing such that it will produce identical, phase cancelling mixes every single time - implying that other DAWs aren’t up to professional standards. Too late for playing nice there. Avid already seized that opportunity and suggested, by virtue of their own status and lack of opposing claims, that native DAWs (such as Nuendo) can’t be considered for professional use. Ouch.

Well, with just EQs and non-random dynamics, any two renders of a mix in Nuendo can cancel as well (barring any random anomalies in automation, or random fx plugins).

But no one knows that. Now Nuendo would have to prove technically that Avid is wrong just to have enough credibility to state that Nuendo is equivalent.

A company could have the best product in the world that exceeds all others by 20 years in innovation, but if no one knows about it, it’s just a nice idea sitting in a warehouse, or on a computer hard drive, doing nothing. Just knowing you are the best doesn’t make any difference.

I am not suggesting that I can or should tell Steinberg what how to market their product. This is just my opinion as an observer and customer, based on how I see other companies and individuals succeeding in this ultra-competitive industry. It is their choice, and I respect that, but many of us simply aren’t seeing the results in our markets that we presume Steinberg might want to see. My hope is that this kind of feedback would be viewed constructively rather than critically.

So the point here is that we should leave Nuendo because they don’t spend money in promotion?

I do use Nuendo because the tools and the workflow help me to make my work better and quicker. I’m fighting against “the standard” from the first time I decided to leave the given path (Pro Tools and Logic).

What I want is having Nuendo 6 trustable (NOT like it behaves now) and working free of bugs, with a TRULY functional x32 bit plugins wrapper (not that shameful thing).

Everything else is secondary.

And I do think that anyone who decides to buy into a product which will be his/her main tool in the future, and in addition to that costs over a 1.000€ does some kind of research.


You’re arguing something nobody here seems to be proposing.

My colleagues and I know of more pros in the industry that have dismissed Nuendo on rumor and lack of popularity alone, without trying it. And for those that did try Nuendo, excessive bugs or missing simple features they are used to in ProTools have sent them back to ProTools. Where $1000 is no big deal here, neither is $20k for an HDX system.

You can’t win customers on the hope they will go out of their way, research and risk their careers on a non-industry standard DAW, and end up agreeing with you.

Hi Fredo

I share your noble attitude and I also dislike taking advantage of weaknesses, but SB could at least comment on those allegetly features Puhtools propagates as new and unique to mankind, although we have them for ages, already.
If not that, they really should get some nice picture ads in the magazines…
SB…just… be … t h e r e …
Den letzten beissen die Hunde…

Big K

Good point!


Adobe isn’t badmouthing Apple with their FCP-X crossgrade deal. No negatives involved. They’re just saying “we’re here if you want to try us”… in every possible trade paper and medium.

As far as “research”… yeah, some of us did that. Some of us even ran parallel for a while. But as csd points out, research for a lot of people comprises listening to product reps and dealers with an ax to grind, attending vendor-sponsored “user groups”, and going with the herd. It’s real, whether you want to acknowledge the fact or not.

(Look… these days I attract post business based on my reputation and awards and buzz from people who have used me, so I don’t have to be out there selling. Which appeals to me, since I’m getting on in years and don’t want to work very hard. But it was selling myself that got me enough assignments to build that reputation!)

The Adobe comment is case in point. I know heaps of final cut pro guys who have move to Adobe and LOVE IT. And the great thing for Adobe is that it use to be un-acceptable to say you cut on Premiere and only FCP or avid was OK. Now thats changed. Just proves that as long as the features are they market perception means everything. This is what SB just don’t get

Fredo: Your comment is completely correct so here’s my story. I researched DAW software and Nuendo looked great. It had most of the features PT had and some others PT didn’t. So I invested and became a strong advocate for Nuendo. I evangelised for Nuendo and tole as many people as poss about it. The backlash started straight away “Oh its not PT… BS” So for many year I was a proud Nuendo user in an industry that was all about PT. But what happen is PT changed and started adding features Nuendo users boosted about and PT got more accessible. Features and Price. What attracted me about Nuendo was slowly being eroded. But the big thing is I realised that in terms of marketing from SB; the message I was trying to tell all my colleagues and costumers SB wasn’t backing me up. So over the last 2 years I’ve gone from Hero - Zero. Missing NAB 2013 when you have a brand new software release Nuendo 6 and Nuage. Was the straw the broke this camels back.

I see you’ve locked the other tread: Ha!

So your answer to unhappy customers is to gag them, lock threads and not front up and answer our questions and threaten us with warnings.

I can threaten to
Fredo you mentioned that people research DAW before spending $1000+ thus implying that Nuendo on its reputation alone will bring customers flocking in there thousands. Well how about this then I get enough of us annoyed users to slag the heck out of Nuendo on every major industry forum and then lets see how peoples “research” goes when hearing about Steinberg reputation.

or… Come to the party show us you mean business and show up

Timo I can’t believe you really said you chose Prolight and Sound Show over NAB