I wrote Steinberg to get a refund

I’d suggest setting the program aside as an investment. When each upgrade comes up, check its new functionality and re-evaluate. Chances are getting a refund now and then buying back in later will cost you more in the long run, particularly if you bought your first copy as a cross-grade (which, since you are a professional, is likely).

(It’s not unlike a stock investor that goes to cash at the first sign of market weakness and then is out of the market as it rises.)

Talk about undemanding: you gleefully bought software that you a) knew was v1.0 and b) didn’t know what it was supposed to be.

I never saw anything published by Daniel that said it was “going to look a lot like Cubase”.

Actually, if Dorico did look like Cubase, I probably wouldn’t be interested in it. I don’t need another sequencer - one is quite enough, and anyway the one I use isn’t Cubase.

When you buy a new software, you never know what are you going to buy exactly. Throughout of my life I’ve bought many musical software programs and I’ve still tested more.
In many cases I didn’t like this one or another one program. That’s all. I know perfectly well that a new software is not released smoothly. I’m not demanding a refund. I know I’ve made an investment that will eventually pay off. But that is not the question. The issue is the transparency in the market. Companies like Steinberg have to make more clear what they are going to come up . I know D. Spreadbury said that the first version would lack many important functionalities, but either I understand the English language very poorly, (which you’ll already have noted) or it was said that the first version would already have keyboard editor, you could edit MIDI controllers, could be assigned VST expressions, and more functions that simply has not been implemented yet.
I’ll wait patiently for the updates of the program.
It doesn’t matter if I buy the software gleefully. What do you mean by that? I just expected a launch of the program, with all the normal bugs, but with functions that Steinberg had announced. (Since the first version). Nothing more than that.

Early adoption without a trial is a ‘risk’. Period.

I want in early, and hope the product succeeds…so I’m taking the risk and paying to play. I’m not really expecting the product to be terribly useful (in terms of total value at this steep price point) right away, but I’m hedging my bet on how well individuals involved in this team did with Sibelius. I might be wasting my money…but if this product fails…it may be decades before we see another attempt at a ‘fresh approach’ in the realm of Notation Software.

NEVER buy software you cannot get a demo to ‘test’ unless you understand that getting into a ‘first release product’ is mainly a ‘show of support’, a ‘bet on the future’ or a display of ‘confidence’ in the future of the product.

This team needs fans and support if we want the ‘Father Company’ to continue with the project. Without some sales and revenue streams…it gets evermore difficult for the company to keep the project going and growing.

I agree that in ‘this case’ Steinberg should be a bit more flexible on refunds, as the backlash could cost them dearly in the long run…however, let it be a lesson.

A reasonable compromise would be to:

  1. IF the user put the software on a fresh USB key that came in a boxed version: Allow the customer to return the package AND the USB key with the licenses on it. Once confirmed the keys are safely in company custody, refund the full purchase price.


  1. If the user doesn’t have a USB key, or has other licenses on the key (Such as Cubase, or whatever), Steinberg could charge a ‘deposit’ to ship a USB Licenser to the customer who wants to make a return with instructions on how to move the keys to the new licenser. The instructions need to be very clear on which keys to move in eLicenscer, and how to move them. Once Steinberg confirms they got their USB Licenser back, and all the relevant software-keys are back in their possession they could make the refund and return the deposit for the USB Licenser.

The truth is, Steinberg could set up a special ‘dongle deposit’ account and recoup a few cents in interest on the ‘deposit money’ people send in for temporary USB licensers. Moving money around so it ‘works for the company’ is nothing new for the smart folks in management, so let them earn their keep on this one :slight_smile:

In exchange for making the user jump through the extra hoops of dealing with the dongle system, Steinberg should consider offering a considerable discount (value of all the shipping and waiting) that can be applied to Steinberg/Yamaha/Partner Company products.

The proposal above places a tremendous amount of responsibility and trouble on the user, but at least it would show some effort on the part of Steinberg to share some of the ‘transaction risk’ in ‘first release’ product launches like this one.

Lesson for Users:
Don’t gamble on software you can’t test yourself unless you are willing accept the risks that come along with being an early adopter to a new piece of technology.

If you can’t get a demo, and you can’t afford to take a risk on the investment…WAIT next time.

Lesson for Steinberg:
Don’t release a product until there is a demo available.

I have to say, I’m with akkad86 and others. While I’ve appreciated the quick response on issues, the unfortunate responses have almost always been “this features isn’t yet available, but we hope it will be soon.” That means you pushed something out the door before it was ready. I would have rather waited until next year to get the product than pay money and have to wait for a usable program. I can’t actually use the software for anything at this point. Since there are many unavailable articulations, I can’t even print the music I input. I can’t export to MIDI, because the tempo and dynamics don’t export. Even exporting to XML to fix this in another program doesn’t work. The articulations, tempo marks or crescendo/decrescendo marks don’t export (or don’t export properly).

I REALLY DO understand that an application of this magnitude takes time. It’s just feeling like you didn’t take the time needed before you released it–you’re taking it afterwards. I haven’t had the crashes or bugs that some have reported. Having had a taste of Dorico, I think I would actually buy it in the future, but for right now, I think I need my $300 back since it’s unusable in its current state.

There is no refund from SB; so, sell it - take a $10 or $20 hit or whatever… its an option…?

I’m not at all happy with what I’ve received in exchange for $300 (thank God that it wasn’t full priced), but I’ve simply accepted the fact that I should never have made the move without being able to exercise a demo version first. That’s my own error and an expensive lesson.

At this point I doubt that Steinberg could afford to provide refunds to unhappy customers. The negative cash flow would be too large and the publicity would likely doom Dorico.

Nope, not an option.

“The customer shall receive the non-exclusive , perpetual, non-transferable right to use the contractual products in accordance with the contract.”

We paid our fee and took our chances.

That is a legality that prevents a customer selling the product (license) on directly to a third party, isn’t it…? Alternately, you must go through SB themselves, in order that they handle the transfer of license/ownership. This ensures the new buyer is entitled to (reduced) updates/upgrade prices and full access to Tech Support. The sellers account is nullified (for that product). I mean, people sell Cubase often enough without any grief…

Anyway, I’m a little out of my depth now… :slight_smile:

Just an update while Daniel get back to us with the possibility of returning the license and get a refund. I hope that he does bring good news!

I guess that Steinberg is not being very flexible at all. That attitude does not really help to cope with the problem that they (Steinberg) have introduced with the release of Dorico.

I teach a jazz guitar workshop at the University of Seville, in Spain. I never saw a link for the Crossgrade from Sibelius and Education at 179€, they did not put it in the store the first day. So, for that reason I did not apply for it.

I wrote to them to see if I can be considered for that option. Guess what? Too late, the same answer as to return the software. Makes me starting to hate Steinberg. I never had worked with them before, and hopefully never after this ordeal. They have policies so that they can get your money and run, don’t even give a chance. It is hard for me to believe it.

Here is my original message and their answer:

To: info@steinberg.de
Date: 21.10.2016 18:48
Subject: Dorico


I discovered that there is an option to buy Dorico as crossgrade from Sibelius and Education.

I purchased the crossgrade from Sibelius, is any way that I can get the discounted offer? I teach at the University of Seville.

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

Carlos G. Bermudo

On Oct 26, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Info Steinberg <info@steinberg.de> wrote:

Dear Mr. Bermudo,

If the license isn’t activated yet you can get a refund and just buy the education crossgrade. For that please get in conatct with asknet. Here are the contact details:

asknet AG
Vincenz-Priessnitz-Str. 3
76131 Karlsruhe Deutschland
Phone: +49 (0)721.96458-0
Fax: +49 (0)721.96458-99

Write us:

Best regards,

Jan Riesener
Steinberg Technical Support

I can’t even get them to respond to me about reconsidering my educational verification request.

Please give our customer services team a little time - they have been inundated with requests in the past week.

Steinberg answer to akkad86:

I shall say to Steinberg that if they want to impose that philosophy on every license buyer they should put this piece of text on the BUY button in their Store, right after you click with a link to the development diary (because not everyone has read it neither has the obligation to know that exists):


When people buy anything they are not obligated to keep all the news from a development! Or when some one buys a pair of nice shoes, italian leather, very expensive… are they obligated to know that somewhere on the internet exist a development history about those shoes and that they should not be wear on a rainy day because the shoes will totally melt? NO, that is not the way it works!

I’m surprised to hear that you were told you could not be refunded the difference between the normal crossgrade and educational crossgrade, since as far as I know we have been doing this for customers who did not discover the educational crossgrade when they made the purchase because it was only listed in the educational shop for the first couple of days. If you would be so kind as to email me directly with your order details at d dot spreadbury at steinberg dot de I will do my best to sort that out for you.

We are still discussing how best to handle the issue of a complete refund that would require you to do a specific process with your existing license. I think it will be possible, but I need to confirm that with my colleagues in Hamburg.

I hope, however, that you will reconsider your request for a refund, and will stick with us. We have a number of solid improvements in the pipeline that will be available in a few short weeks that will address a lot of the problems you have been experiencing.

For what it’s worth, I’m not sure that Daniel has totally ruled out some kind of integration between Dorico and Cubase in the long(er) run.

But indeed, for the here and now, Daniel has been very clear that Dorico is a standalone application, and while it “borrows” some of the Cubase technology (the audio engine), it’s focus is first and foremost on being a very solid engraving program, including - also in due course - with a powerful audio engine and midi editing features.

I’ve often thought that if Adobe had wanted to, or Microsoft, they could have rolled all their flagship apps together. Photoshop + Illustrator + InDesign as one seamless app, or just “Office” that included Excel/Word/Ppt.

I’m sure they make a lot more keeping them separate.

I can see how in the long run a lot of the audio apps could have the same potential.

It’s still so exciting to be part of the Dorico club! Go Steinberg!


I think a quoting of what was said in the above FAQ link might hopefully help:

Are you working on improving the scoring features in Cubase and Nuendo?

No, we are working on a wholly separate application. The scoring features in Cubase and Nuendo are developed by the expert developers in Hamburg who have been working on this area of the program for many years. In the long term we expect there to be some cross-pollination of technology between our application and Steinberg’s other applications, but in the here and now we are totally focused on building a separate application.

Especially also, the following

Re: Integration with Cubase

Postby Daniel at Steinberg » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:34 am
We haven’t done any serious investigation into the specifics of how to integrate any of Dorico into Cubase, though this is definitely the long-term goal. I wouldn’t like to speculate as to how hard or otherwise it might be to achieve this in comparison to integrating the audio engine with Dorico, but there is so much functionality in Cubase’s score editor, and it is so tightly integrated with all of the other MIDI editing features in the application, that I’m pretty sure it won’t be at all easy. We would want to allow Cubase to have the beautiful graphical results that Dorico produces, but retaining all of the familiar and consistent workflows that Cubase users are used to when switching between its various editors.

And this:

I hope that over time we will be able to replicate some of the useful MIDI/score editing functionality from Cubase into Dorico, and possibly bring some of Dorico’s fine graphical output into Cubase, without compromising the separate identities of both applications.

So again this seems to be a definite future goal, but not at this time.

Thanks Bob

I’m still waiting for an update about the option of a refund. Are there any news Daniel?

As I understand it, the decision has been made that we cannot make exceptions to our standard refund policy for other products licensed with the Soft-eLicenser, I’m afraid. We have been able to provide partial refunds to customers who would have been eligible for the educational crossgrade but who ended up buying the regular retail crossgrade, but we cannot offer complete refunds.

I hope that in a short space of time you will not regret your purchase of Dorico and that the forthcoming 1.0.10 update will demonstrate to you our commitment to delivering improvements to the software as quickly as possible.