I'm finally a "new" lanes convert (Except...)

I thought of a possible solution here… In fact, I gave it a try hoping it would work and we were all on about nothing but alas…

perhaps locking a track after comping should (but currently doesn’t) lock the comped takes as well.At the moment in 6.03 you can comp, lock a track, and still record more takes over the locked track. All that happens is the new take is automatically selected and locked. The old comped regions become muted and the selected bits become lost forever.

I use 6 in my studio, but lecture on 5.5.3 at a media university (they’ve just upgraded all the machines with protools 9, so cubase 6 will have to wait till next year). I’m aware of the changes made between the two versions on a daily basis.

Generally I love 6 and the new method of comping, but every now and then you bump into a new feature that has lost functionality whilst gaining aesthetics and this troubles me. (Automation points come to mind)

We’ve lost the ability to record, comp, record some more, comp some more, all while saving, and having quick access to each and every take. This is a step backward in my opinion.

First prize for me would still be 2 modes of comping

and

I think these sum up these two styles of working here. I go more for a simplistic approach but I think aspects of the second style need looking at if only to clarify a method to work which reduces the clutter involved in avoiding loss of options to redo and / or change the takes without losing any work along the way.
It has to be as simple to use your way as my way.

It’s not just recording new material that will lose a comp. Two more things will:

  1. Moving/copying an event to one of your lanes will make that new event the “active take” for the duration of its length. If it’s a long event, it can wipe out your whole comp. There is a workaround though: mute the event before moving it and the comp will be preserved (until…)

  2. If there is a long, inactive part in one of your lanes and you click it, it becomes active and the existing comp is lost. I know this is by design, and you can always undo… but you can only undo if you saw that you made an error! An accidental click on a cluttered screen in a big project can easily go unnoticed… So a single click can wipe out a whole comp…

Hey, FD, are you not suffering a C5 hangover there, mate? I’m familiar with what you describe. At first, I was very reluctant to cut up my pristine events but it was clearly going against the new regime to try and preserve this as I kept coming up with the problems you’re encountering.

Going with the grain, all lanes are snipped at the same place (Snap To Zero is definitely out here). Let it, it works out okay in the end and stops long events masking others and screwing up the comp. Once happy, you can glue adjacent events back together before ‘Delete Overlaps’, etc.

I know you can partially reveal events and that’s handy I suppose but in the end you’re going to have to x-fade, which involves cutting, so you might as well do it at the start as later.

Resistance is…confusing!

:smiley:

COMPING Preserving Multiple Takes.JPG
Does this do it for you?

I’ve got two Channels of takes, each independently comped. If you Solo Defeat the backing channels (just the click-track here and you may need to manually enable VSTi outputs) you can Ctrl-Solo between comps (forces Exclusive Solo).

At the end of the second section you can see where I’ve cut across all takes to replace the end of take 1, showing that multi-take editing is easy enough by selecting more than one set of events (which can be collapsed to make them easier to manage). I needed to use the Mute Tool here so colour-coded the event I had been using.

I don’t know whether this use of the Mute Tool gets us anywhere. Anyway, I’ve ended up with a nice little project to do out of this so I’ll be giving this a proper road-test over the next few days and thought I’d leave it with you in the meantime.

Cheers,
C

Hi Aj,
Here is a worklow suggestion regarding comp protection using “Events To Part”. Parts can be dissolved to events with “Dissolve Part”. Different Parts cannot be combined with “Evetns To Part” but can be glued together. In a part your comp is safe. By double clicking on a part you can change the comp inside it.

At a certain point I am comping comps but can always be sure that my original comps will remain if I glue the parts back together.
AProtectingComps.gif
I would suggest to reproduce what I am doing in the gif to get the hang of the workflow and moves.

You can also use the “Bounce Selection” command to create one file and event out of a comp.

Gr,
JHP

Parts! Now why didn’t I think of that - use 'em all the time. Thanks JHP, looks useful.

Thanks for joining in here JHP, and thank you especially for taking the time to create that detailed animated .gif.

It’s busy here today, and I’ve only had a brief moment to check in with this (very active!) thread. When I get a breather later, I’ll try out these new ideas and report back. Helpful stuff…

Aj

Once again jhp to the rescue. Its posts like these that keep me coming back. Super informative.

Many thanks for the gif… No manual could’ve explained half as well.

One question. How does this translate to multiple track comping? More specifically can edits made in the part editor be 'grouped to other parts on grouped tracks?

Curious about this too…

Thanks JHP! I’ve been using Cubase for 6 years and never really understood the parts thing. So glad you made that gif and explained how to glue the parts to save comps. I just upgraded to CB6 to take advantage of group editing features but this thread made me nervous about re-tracking over comps (which I do all the time when tracking vocals). Now I know how to keep them safe! Awesome tip thanks again.

bookmarking.

Messy workaround, doesent work for me…


The manual and auto - mode suggestion is a good one, that would fix this bug…
untill then I´m on v5

Yep - once again we have to do more work, in order to out-smart the new automatic features.

Parts are fantastic, don’t get me wrong, but maybe the following would work better as a long term solution: (?)

  • If the audio track is empty when you record new audio, then the new event is made “active” (as now).
  • If the track is not empty, then the new audio event is made “inactive”

You wouldn’t lose your comp (when when you copy an inactive part to a track with a comp on it, it doesn’t destroy it), plus you wouldn’t need to mess around with parts. Would that work in practice? Just an idea.

I think that you and I use audio tracks for different purposes :slight_smile: That’s cool, I respect that :slight_smile:
Sometimes, I do exactly what you describe and it works great!! It really rocks. I had lots of bass takes to comp just now and it made life much easier. I do use this “type” of track. But at least in equal measure I use audio tracks to play samples and FX, some short, some very long, some repeated bits, bits of delay bounces, vocal loops, chopped up madness… this audio is not multiple “takes” of the same thing in the traditional loop-recording sense. It’s not multiple attempts at a musical idea, so chop these up at identical points makes no sense whatsoever!

So I think until you have tried to use audio tracks for this type of thing then you won’t fully appreciate what the problem is… As for “resistance” - I welcome new features with open arms but I am a firm believer that a map should fit the terrain, not the other way round! When a mistake is made drawing a map, you shouldn’t then go and demolish a hill in order to make the map look “correct”. It wouldn’t matter to all map users, that occasional missing hill, but it matters to the hillwalkers! Can one size fit all? Of course not. This is not Soviet Russia (after all, in Soviet Russia, DAW comps YOU :smiley: ) .

One size cannot fit all - we need options please :slight_smile: Thanks for listening. Now flame at will…

I welcome new features with open arms but I am a firm believer that a map should fit the terrain, not the other way round! When a mistake is made drawing a map, you shouldn’t then go and demolish a hill in order to make the map look “correct”. It wouldn’t matter to all map users, that occasional missing hill, but it matters to the hillwalkers! Can one size fit all? Of course not. This is not Soviet Russia (after all, in Soviet Russia, DAW comps YOU

This sentence makes it look like you’re deliberately looking for problems that aren’t there. Come on. What’s all the raving about? Is this Soviet America? :mrgreen: So sue them.
The problem here seems to have been resolved at least partly.

I wonder if a “Comp Preset” system would be possible?
(So that way you could create, store and recall different “choices” from the same set of recordings.)

Maybe that’s not possible because of the split/join functionality?

Thank you for the positive feedback about the gif. :slight_smile:
The functionality is also there for multitrack comping. In the part editor the events can be independently edited and the folder track grouping feature does not apply. You can dissolve the parts if you would like to change the comp.
Here is a gif that shows multitrack comp protection:
AProtectingMultiTrackComps.gif
Gr,
JHP

Hi JHP,
I watched your gif about using Events to Part to keep selected audio snipets together during the comping process. But here is my question. In your video, when you selected the parts to keep, highlighted the section, then excecuted the Events to Part from the menu, what happens to all the “un-selected” audio segements that were not selected during the comping process. Look like some of them might have been moved to Lane 1 but some of them dissappeared all together.
Thanks

There are no dissapearing events.

Every event you select, whether the event is muted or unmuted, will end up in the part once you execute “Events to Parts”. :wink:

Look at the gif again and reproduce to make the workflow and concept yours.

Gr,
JHP