I'm not going for Pro Tools, but...

Steinberg Lounge
#1

I have flirted with Pro Tools 10 this weekend, but I have decided to stay with the Steinberg family. At least for now.

But Steinberg, please give me this from Pro Tools:

Tracks list and Groups:
The possibility to e.g. turn on/off tracks. Both in Nuendo and automatic for my Euphonix MC gear. Like PT

Tools:
Changing tool is too much work when editing. Yes, I know there is shortcuts, but still… Please give us the possibility to change tool just by moving the mouse over different places on an event. In Pro Tools there e.g. selector tool in the top of an event (clip), and hand tool at the bottom.

#2

+1 for both

And the ability to change the order of channels in the mixer separate from the arranger window …

#3

Depending on your work flow and/or if you have issues with Nuendo, I would suggest spending a little more time with Pro Tools. At first when I moved to v10hd native it was a bit of a challenge but after spending a lot of time with it with my lappy by my side to search DUC and youtube for answers to my question, I found a lot of things that just work so darn good. It relieved all the pressure I had been putting on Steinberg to release any patches addressing long-standing issues. I am much more peaceful now :sunglasses:

#4

Thanks for replies :slight_smile:

Tom:
Is there anything that you miss from Nuendo?
I have two friends that have worked with Steinberg software (Cubase, Cubase SX, Nuendo) for years:
One of them migrated to PT some years ago, and he really recommend me doing the same. The work flow is sooooo much easier and elegant, he says.
My other friend says I’m crazy just considering migration to PT.

That’s what friends are for… :wink:

Including my confusion after talking to my two above mentioned friends: Another issue stopping me for migration to Pro Tools is that I have 2 x MR816 CSX, so I don’t know if it’s possible to use direct monitoring.
Maybe you know?

Thanks again :slight_smile:

#5

I miss being able to slip audio with in the region using the mouse. In PT this is a stepped key command and not as fluid. I also miss being able to suspend VST3 processes when there is no audio present. But being forced to to consider managing my resources better is really not a bad thing.

I thought I would miss things like Project Logical Editor but I don’t, PT doesn’t require you to program it yourself… it just does what you need out of the box.

Re: keycommands transfer… the way I did it was after a week on PT, I reprogrammed all my main keys in nuendo to be like PT. There are a few you can’t do that use Tab or the WIN key but you can more or less get them all going.

Bottom line, if you want to work with others or if you just need a DAW that works, PT is a safe move right now. If you know anyone that owns it, have them come over to your place with their dongle to see if you interfaces will work.

#6

Thanks for replies :slight_smile:

Is there anybody here using Nuendo or Cubase that has migrated from Pro Tools?
So far I’m 50/50 for migration, but I guess migration to PT will increase…

#7

Most people have probably gone the other way. PT has been incredibly smooth and stable here. Simple things like importing session data, key commands to setup and assign tracks with cascading I/O save immense amounts of time just getting a session ready to go. Like others here have said, it just works which means getting more work done faster, with lower stress.

Nuendo has some nice features and some may prefer it for personal reasons, but for many of us, those features don’t really offset PT’s more efficient capabilities, and the fact that they just work without odd little bugs or workarounds.

#8

I’ve tried a few times.

I know I’m repeating myself but the last time I tried, and this was a while ago, I ended up fighting for the correct functionality of movie file import into Nuendo. And this is the fundamental problem; basic functionality that’s either not working properly, ‘strangely’ designed, or missing, and our need to “fight” for it being what it “should” be.

I know some are going to disagree with my opinions on what those features are, but in many cases many have agreed. What ended up happening in that instance was that I finished the film I was working on and then never returned to Nuendo for anything that involved time/money. In other words the response by Steinberg, in words and practice, made me consider the app a “bedroom hobby app” for lack of better words. This is not true for all people of course.

I’m about to try out N5 now and see if I like the product again. But what’s worrying me is that I don’t feel that we’ve come that far since the last time I tried it out in terms of SB’s responsiveness and communication. Trust me, we’ve been talking about proper track groups like PT for years now. Do you see any? Same with a tool that changes according to cursor position.

I read in this thread that someone said that the workflow is easier and more elegant in PT I’m not sure I agree. The strength of Nuendo is also its weakness. It’s very flexible which creates confusion. You don’t have that problem (yet) in Pro Tools. But the control room feature in Nuendo is awesome. So is the inclusion of a decent media management app (media bay). And the ability to output mixdowns from several sources between several markers as a batch process. And I like the automation system. Customizable key commands. Macros. The list goes on… But for some reason no proper track grouping (mixing 101) or VCA’s or multi-tool cursors…

In your case I’d simply consider it from a financial standpoint: Does it make financial sense for you to switch? How much more money do you have to spend? How much time do you have to spend re-learning an app? Will you get more revenue through more jobs by switching?

#9

I migrated from protools, but that was a while ago…

Hmmm, what do I miss… I miss the Nuendo lag! :laughing:

Ok, Seriously now. Your usage will vary… I record mostly bands and VO for cable networks.

I still consider myself a novice in relation to my knowledge of PT vs cubase and nuendo since I had not used Pro Tools since version 4 or 5.

I miss having variaudio built in. Melodyne fills the gap here, but costs money.
I miss some of my VST plugins that are not available in rtas so I am waiting for aax to come up before I get my substations.

Nuendo’s automation panel. I used it all the time.

My mackie controllers seemed to work a bit better with nuendo. I had issues with PT at first but it all seems fine now with v10. You should be good though with your Euphonix surface.

There are other things I miss, but it is probably just my lack of knowledge on how to do it in PT. The bottom line for me was I was tired of waiting and tired of being frustrated with Nuendo’s numerous small and some large issues. Nuendo SEEMS more complex and deeper featured than Pro Tools but what Pro Tools does it does very well. I write SEEMS more complex because again, it may be my lack of knowledge of how to do some of the same things in Pro Tools.

Why I now use PT:
My favorite versions of Cubase and Nuendo were version 3 because they just worked great. All my problems started with Cubase 4 that was crash city, so I didn’t bring Nuendo to v4. I skipped it. V5 on the cubase side was good until 5.5 and Nuendo 5 roots came from there so the problems came out of the gate but for whatever reason, it didn’t seem as bad as Cubase 5.5. I am probably hallucinating though because I wanted it to work like I remembered Cubase 5.0. All my 3 Steinberg licenses are held back now. No Cubase 6, no Nuendo 5.5x. It could be that I am a power user with the type of work I do that these things affect me because it is the complex projects that give me grief with current Steinberg DAWs. If I am screwing around doing goofy jingles, things are better.

#10

Control room is great for sure. I do miss the listen bus. I couldn’t phrase it any different about a hobby app. I feel the same way. Make no mistake. PT will cost you money but will save grey hairs from appearing! :laughing:

#11

Last seminar I was at, I was told that some of the best and brightest former steinberg people worked on PT10. FWIW. I would not hold my breath for any useful improvements from here on out. From a bizz point of view, if it were me, I’d would stop trying to compete in the pro market and spend more time worrying about presonus.

I’d love to be surprised… but N6 better be free lol.

#12

Won’t be long before Presonus will be taking PT to task - if it hasn’t already…it’s my go to app now…

VP

#13

I have not tried it. Cool that it has it’s own affordable controller. I have a buddy that loves it. My point is that PT’s domination of the studio and post world has only been solidified with v10. If Avid is smart, they’ll lock up the software with v11 again and make everyone buy their interfaces if they want 64bit power. If SB is smart, they’ll have v6 ready to roll at this time that will include the PT features users have come to depend on… like vca and grouping etc. Capitalizing on Avid’s greed is the last move on the board I think.

If a software/hardware manufacturer, perhaps personus, were to deliver me something that I can use in 64bit, surround, that can ingest SB XML as well as AAF/OMF, use VST3 and AAX, and basically be the hybrid of PT and N5 that we all really need. I’m in. For now PT is paying my rent without waiting for autosave.


EDIT: I’m watching vids on stdio one 2 right now. These guys seem like they’re really on to something here. very cool

#14

But see how long it took for them to respond to Avid’s roll-out of PTv10? PT users were mighty miffed and it took SB a long time to react. And when they offered a cross grade, did you see any advertising of it? I saw it in two places:

Here, which is a bit odd…
On the official page, but NOT smack in the middle, where all the “lower” end (pro-?)consumer stuff is located, but in the lower right corner among other links…

I see absolutely zero effort to market Nuendo. Zero.

That’ll take some time for sure.

#15

Hello,

thanks for your comment. Track groups and the possibility to turn on/off/hide/re-group etc.
all included in Nuendo 6. Plus a feature internally called “ganging”, which is comprehensive
parameter linking between different tracks.

Thanks,
Timo

#16

Great, Timo :slight_smile:
Will this also work for EuControl (on/off/hide/re-group etc)?

#17

if you’re just mixing audio, pro tools is great, however RTAS is dreadful performance wise when you’re using V.I.'s most people I know have to use vienna pro which is another $200 program so they can use AU or VST versions of their virtual instruments.

I have pro tools 9.06 HD here but apart form a few things, Cubendo works a lot better performance wise with my composer/engineer/producer workflow.


MC

#18

Presonus is nice but no multichannel yet, one of the few showstoppers for me…

#19

I have used PT on and off for some years. Sequoia and Nuendo as well.
The inclusion of a nice score editor in PT was a big plus ( along with all the other obvious of course…)
However, my attempt to replace Nuendo as a midi composer with the PT/Sibelius combo have stranded so far, mainly because of poor rtas VI performance. Not only that but very sluggish mulitrack midi performance in general. Too bad, really.

Secondly, VST expressions really makes a difference to me. It just suits my workflow in this area.
So Nuendo certainly has its strenth too. I don’t get the DAW worship modus: “I have now converted to pro tools (or Nuendo, Logic or whatever…)” Of course it helps to know your application, but switching works ok for me :wink:

Ola

#20

Ola,

I’m not worshiping Pro Tools though it has brought a nice sense of peace into my life. A personal thing, yes. I do feel it is appropriate to share it here so Steinberg can see what happens when a long standing customer goes AWOL for a number of reasons. These reasons are littered throughout this and the old forum and it has gotten worse over the past 2 years.

If I am to worship anything, it would be my happiness derived from choices made in order to achieve it. Pro Tools just happened to be the avenue to this happiness coming from a path of frustration with Nuendo and Steinberg.

All the best. :slight_smile: