Import of wavelab 11.2 montages recreates all submontages by default (and ask to render everything)

Hello,
I just migrated to Wavelab 12 and I have an issue with importing old montages.
I usually setup my mastering sessions this way :
A master montage with each track in a double submontage.

  • At the second layer of sub montages is the mix, with pre-processing in VST and as a last master montage effect, the “External FX” so when this sub-montage renders, the analog chain effects are included in the render
  • the layer on top of that so has the rendered analog chain and has all the post analog effect (for expl the limiter).
  • In the master montage, there is the render of every “layer 1” submontages, making the mastered tracks.

When I opened a WL10 montage in WL11, it created a new version of the montage, but didn’t recreated the submontages if I didn’t opened theses clips.
Here in WL12, it recreates everything right away. It’s not directly the issue, but WL ask to re-render everything, and I don’t want to rebounce everything in analog.

Could it be possible that WL just ask if you want to re-render, and if not, just uses the same rendered wav files ?

WaveLab 12 only supports sub-montage as “external”. This means that if you open an old montage with “internal” montages, these ones are converted to new external (sub-)montages. Maybe that’s what you are experimenting?

They all are external sub-montages.

The rendering of a sub-montage is handled as a cache file, in the sense as it can be recreated anytime (not new to WaveLab 12). I understand that if analog processing is involved, this is not optimal for you. Because of montage file format changes, WaveLab 12 requires a re-rendering.
I would recommend to open these old specific montages in WaveLab 11.
If the montage is created in WaveLab 12, this should not happen.

I very frequently refer to older montages to harmonize new tracks to the last album or sometimes revisiting projects on a very long timeframe (a few iterations of the same WIP track for a Live Act / Producer / DJ for expl.) and being able to get all clips at the same place is very usefull to cross-check settings. That’s not as fluid with bounced WAV references in the montage.

I never had that issue with Wavelab 11 opening previous versions projects. Did something change on that front for Wavelab 12 ?

Yes, this is what I tried to explain. There is no more internal sub-montage (to reduce complexity), and this has cause some adaptation for old montage.
But if you re-open a montage created by WaveLab 12 inside WaveLab 12, you should not have this need to re-render.
This is why I recommend you to open the old montage with WaveLab 11. There is no problem having both WaveLab 11 and 12 on the same machine.

I’m not using internal sub-montages, only external ones. Previous versions of WaveLab created new versions of the external sub-montages only when I clicked to open that specific external sub-montage. That allowed to reference a previous project easily if I didn’t need to make changes.
Considering I’m opening old projects every time with recurring clients, It will force to switch back & forth between WL 11 and WL 12 in the same session (or have both apps opened at the same time), or not use WL 12 at all in all this cases.

No offense on all the WL tutorials, which show that quite a few different workflows are possible in WaveLab and that’s one of WL’s core strength. Still, I feel a lot of them induce a lot of rendering WAV “manually”, cloning projects, etc.
Using external sub-montages with the external processing plugin instead requires quite a few less clicks for the same functionality.

With the workflow I use, if I need to swap a source mix, I use my recall sheet to setup the analog chain, then I can even directly hit “export DDP” from the main montage and the analog chain will be printed, then the post processing, and it will be updated in the main montage which contains everything, markers, CD Text, ISRC, fades, etc. and it will export the DDP correctly. If the changes are only on the post-processing (first sub-montage), it’s even faster as there is no analog render.

Obviously I can still do that in WL 12 if I just say goodbye to opening old project in the version of WL I use for new projects. But then, will it break again at a future update ?

I see no reason for this.

In WaveLab 12, make sure to save the montage inside a folder (when you create it). When you create a sub-montage, it will be created inside this folder, in a folder called “sub_montages”. This folder will contain some other folders and sub-folders, one being named “cache”. This one contains the rendering of the sub-montage. This location is different than what was done in the past, hence the need for a re-rendering.

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