I have an audio file of loudness -11.7LUFS - straight export out of Cubase 14 Pro.
I import into an existing Montage, creating a new track and inserting the audio file at the beginning, selecting the option to shift files right.
The clip comes in and is visibly (and audibly) quieter - When I select Analyse/Loudness for the file - it shows me that the loudness is -26.9LUFS. However if I right click and select Edit source and then re-run Analyse/Loudness it shows the correct Loudness of -11.7LUFS.
Can someone tell me what I’m doing wrong - I haven’t experienced this problem with the other 7 audio files in the montage, produced in exactly the same way. The files are 320kbps .mp3 if that makes any odds?
Firstly. I’m using MP3 to build quick and small file size roughcuts for listening on the go. I like to have both the single file and montage available to download.
For final versions I wouldn’t do this!
The audio file when opened straight into WaveLab is the correct loudness of -11.7LUFS.
Away from studio now for two days, so can’t provide screenshots.
Interesting. Then it must be something within the montage that is changing the level such as Pre or Post Clip Gain, Clip Volume Envelope, the Inspector Fader for the Clip, Montage Track, or Montage Output, or a plug-in on that clip. Possibly the Master Section but not likely if the one clip is the only thing that is not playing at the right level.
Without screen shot of some important areas, it’s hard to guess where the gain change is happening but at least now you know the file itself is the correct level by testing it in the Audio Editor.
I have screengrabbed the montage - the first clip is the one that is importing with the wrong loudness in the montage.
Interestingly it has post-gain set at 0db - whereas you can see the next clip is at +15db?!
I haven’t put these settings in - so I wonder where they are generated, and why it’s not doing it for the new clip??
OK - I just read another post where you explained abit more about pre-gain/post-gain.
So I ran the Meta Normaliser- and it was just set to adjust pre-gain - so I selected post-gain and the problem clip now has a post gain of +15dB - so that is great.
But I’m still confused as to why it’s happening? I have used Meta normaliser on the other tracks in the montage - but they are all mixed to c-12LUFS so the normaliser is really just doing small adjustments, and I don;t think I’ve changed any settings?
It’s impossible to know but as far as I know, the default option when inserting new clips to a montage is that they’re set to 0dB. No gain change.
You must have either changed the clip gain manually on the other clips, or ran something like the MetaNormalizer at some point to set the clips to a certain level.
The MetaNormalizer can be set to adjust the clip gain either PRE or POST Clip Effects.
If your new file is truly -11.7LUFS but is only -26.9LUFS when played in your motange when set to 0dB Clip Gain, you must have a negative level change somewhere else downstream in the montage such s Track Inspector, Montage Output, or the Master Section. Or in some plugin.
It’s impossible to know without having the montage file.
If your other mixes are at a reasonable level natively, adding +15 dB of gain would make them insanely loud unless of course, if you are lowering the gain somewhere else downstream in the montage, maybe it works out to be something acceptable sounding.
Overall this seems like a gain staging mess and you may want to start over with more attention to the gain staging.
Even without any plugins, there are a number of places the gain can be changed within a montage and without having the montage or more screen shots, it’s impossible to guess:
Clip Gain (Pre)
Clip Gain (Post)
Clip Gain Envelope
Track Inspector Gain
Montage Output Inspector Gain
Master Section
No problem. If you are still having issues after starting with a new montage, post some screen shots of other sections downstream from the clips that allow for gain change.
As far as I can tell, your original clips (not the new clip) are being turned WAY up at the Clip level (post Clip Effects) and the somewhere after that must be getting turned down to a sensible level.
In other words, your new clip seems to be playing back lower than it really is because something downstream in the montage (or possibly master section) is turning everything way down.
Just rebuilt the whole montage - applied Meta Normaliser - with the same Master section FX - and this is what Clips is showing for Pre and Post Gain now (screengrab below). I guess I did something along the way that threw it all way out! Anyway, all looking much better now, and all my tracks came in with their expected loundness
Thanks again for nudging me in the right direction!
No problem. If you want to save some screen real estate, you can place the clip of an album on just one or two tracks, or even on one track but using two lanes.
This way you get a better view of the full album instead of having to put each song on its own montage track.
It could help make it easier to see what’s going on.
Every time I added a new clip (or new version of an existing clip) I ran MetaNormaliser. I thought that it would just affect the new clip, but instead it kept incrementaly increasing the post-gain volumes of all the clips.
I have now found the option on MetaNormaliser to ‘Process selected clips only’. Problem solved.
