In need of help with Syncing MR816CS ADAT with RME Raydat !

Hi fellas,I am hoping that some of you experts would be able to help me out with my current ADAT Setup issue.

Please note that I am a new user here but I used to have an account with old forums too.

Here is some detailed info about my situation which I hope you can help as I also posted in RME Forums too,I will try to keep both places updated if I can get this issue fixed so here we go…;

I’ve recently bought an HDSPe Raydat and I’d basically would like to use it with my Steinberg MR816CSX card which I had bought a long time ago.

My goal is to assign the Raydat as the Main Daw Audio Interface so that I can use its great ASIO drivers and I also would like to use the MR816 as a Mic Pre/Converter as it sounds really good and with the great driver performance of the Raydat and being able to use the great Totalmix,I am pretty sure that I’d get a decent and a rock solid workflow with this sort of setup.
So I tried to work it out a bit and I have came accross with some problems which I hope you guys can help with of course…

First of all,My current recordings is held inside a PC that is running an up to date version of 32 bit Windows 7 with Cubase 5.5 as the DAW.

I’ve made sure that I am using the up to date firmwares and drivers on both of the audio interfaces.
My RME RAYDAT is using the Driver version 3.24 (05-05-2011) for RME Hammerfall DSP for WindowsXP/Vista/7x86/x64 Drivers and the firmware version says Hardware Revision 12.
My MR816 is also updated and FYI it’s using the Driver v.1.61 and Firmware is the latest (Boot:V.1.0,Main V1.10,IEEE1394 V.1.01)
My Raydat’s clock has been set to [internal] from the settings (I think this would set it to be the master)
I’ve set the MR816 to clock from Adat in its settings and the sample rate is also set to 44.1k in both devices.
I brought the appropriate levels up with faders within the MR816 Mixer

I’ve connected a simple brand new Toslink cable (the 2 cables that came together with the raydat out the box assuming they work and are approved) from the MR816’S Adat out into the Adat1In of the Raydat then I’ve connected another Toslink cable from the Adat4 Out of Raydat into the Adat In of the MR816CSX.
In Digicheck I can see a solid signal feeding the raydat’s ADAT that is in sync with the MR816 so this looks as OK in terms of syncing them.
I also turned on Adat 4 out from the Raydat’s Settings by checking the box Adat4 from the [Spdif out] panel so that it also sends the S/Pdif out from there as well.(I confirmed this by reading the Raydat’s Manual)

Both my MR816 and the Raydat is set to 44.1k with the same buffer size on each audio interface (512 in this case)not to mention that my Cubase Project also follows the same clock options.
My MR816 is connected to my PC with a firewire cable on a PCI Firewire Card with a TI Chipset on it and it works OK on its own.
Since the Raydat is a PCIe Card I did not want to pull out the firewire cable from the MR816 and use it as standalone so that I could control different scenarios by being able to access MR816’s own mixer and from there on I could save my mixer settings as Presets/Snapshots to use at a later Recording/Mixing situation.My Raydat is in the same PC…

Some of you may already know that MR816 is fully integrated(so called)with Cubase and that it comes with special extensions that just allows it to comunicate more carefully with Cubase and let’s you use the integrated Cubase 5 options too etc. but these extensions were not installed in my Cubase 5.5 on purpose because I have read in Steinberg’s Forums that it may cause some conflicts with the settings of TotalMix as the firewire cable is still connected and Mr is still active then it could possibly overwrite the Total Mix’s settings whenever an MR816 Template/Extension is to be used by Cubase so for that reason,I have not installed any MR816 Extensions but the drivers only.

Some users in Steinberg’s forums also said that I might loose the option to use the DSP Functions of MR816 if I was to use ADAT with it such as not being able to use MR816’s built in EQ/Reverbs but I am actually not planning to use any of those onboard EQs/FXs (allthough the reverb sounds perfect to my ears)which comes built in with MR816’s so by using the ADAT I might loose this ability of MR816 but I don’t quite mind it since I can always use TotalMix for my monitoring and setup the FXs/EQs from within Cubase with Software Reverbs for monitoring it’s not really an issue for me right now.Perhaps,there is also a work around for that with other routing possibilities though as I said it’s my least concern at this moment,maybe some of you have managed to get it to work even with the On board FX’s available to them…

I am hoping that this should be the way to go with my setup because all I am interested in is to be able to use the MR816’s nice Mic Pre’s (I don’t really need the integration of MR nor the Direct Monitoring of Cubase if those has to be loosed to achieve what I am after)and use the raydat’s Asio drivers to get a more solid workflow.

I’ve also routed the analog outs directly to the adat outs in TotalMix as well as in the MR816’s mixer.I tried various other routing options such as routing them all 8 channels from the Spdif outs etc. but to no available.

I might be doing a routing mistake somewhere in the chain maybe but this could probably be fixed with the ability of complex routing possibilities provided with the TotalMix software I assume (e.g. through the Matrix View).

For now,I would just like to use 1-2 Stereo channels as my Stereo Outs so everything coming out from only a stereo out and maybe another pair(s) of stereo outputs for the cans and I am planning to assign and use more outputs for other situations through the Matrix Window later on so I guess TotalMix’s Presets saving ability may become really useful here.

With my current setup which I am ASSUMING to consider as correctly routed,
I can get the meters to show the signal(s)of all physical inputs/playback and hardware output rows so all seems to be routed fine to my eyes, I can also hear the recording from within Cubase when I am recording with the ASIO of Raydat has been choosen.

But then the new problem is that I cannot hear the playback through my speakers which are connected to MR816’s Analog Output 1-2 …

I can hear and see the input signal going through just fine in TotalMix and I can also record audio into Cubase but when I wanted to hear it back then there is no audio coming out from my speakers,I’ve turned off the direct monitoring from Cubase and I also have tried with it [turned on] I can further confirm that the Control Room Mixer and VST System Link is currently disabled/deactived and there is still not any difference.My speakers are of course turned on and the all the cables are tested and working just fine.

As far as I can tell,my routings were correctly assigned at least in terms of inputs inside the Cubase since I could record and hear the audio when I tried to record it with Cubase maybe I was just hearing what Totalmix is sending out to Cubase but I could also see the levels changing in Cubase’s own mixer too and it shows the signal coming in ready to be recorded,I’ve as well tried to assign multiple outputs to test if I could hear any recorded audio,I’ve changed settings from the VST Connections and tested it with all other output options that was available to use such as in spdif outs/AES outs as the Output channel and so on obviously by routing them accordingly from within the TotalMix and MR816’S mixers too such as routing/panning adat 1 to L and adat 2 to R and so forth (see the pictures below) all set up in MR816’s and Totalmix reads it accordingly and the MR816 is just set to clock externally but I still had no luck with it.

It’s good to tell that I’ve also connected the ribbon cable too in between the raydat and it’s extension board when I installed it.

No matter what I’ve tried I could not get it to playback the audio that is been just recorded for the love of GOD.
My Windows is set not to use the Raydat as the Main WDM device either.It’s MR816 that is set as the current WDM Device of Windows Audio.(System Sounds are turned off though…)


I’ve also realized that inside the MR Edito(MR816’S Settings Panel and Mixer) if I choose the [S/Pdif (+opt)/S/Pdif (coax)]out instead of ADAT from within the MR816’s Mixer I could hear the played back audio from Cubase but then I could not hear anything that I am recording to so just the exact opposite of my problem now.This only happens when I’ve changed the ADAT mode to the S/Pdif on MR816.

There is also another option in the MR816’s Mixer which allows you to use (ADAT 1-6) + S/Pdif coax outs but If I were to use this option then I belive I’d need to connect an extra RCA Cable to the unit which also is available but that only lets me use the ADAT Outs 1-6 meaning that channel 7-8 would be useless or it may be used to do something else that I am not aware of yet but this sort of option is still available and if I cannot get my setup to work with 2 TOSLINK Cables connected chances are I might end up trying to work out this mode with an extra cable and see how that works out.

It might be useful to say that this is my first ever attempt on setting up a world clock and or trying to digitally sync two devices but I have made my research by checking the both manuals and as well as the forums from both RME and Steinberg/and other Pro Audio forums.

I’ve seen that some users have successfully achieved to get this sort of setup to work flawlessly with similar specs to what I’ve got here and that is actually what I am looking for and I think as soon as I get this playback issue resolved with the help of those who charms in here,I am going to go ahead and set the matrix up with Zero Latency Monitoring also with my SPL Monitor/Headphone Amp/Patchbay/Fx/and so on. I believe I will be onto an amazing system if I can just manage to get this ADAT Connection to work properly.

So back to my problem,

It may be useful to indicate that My RME Raydat’s Digicheck is showing the ADAT1 is in [sync]but I’ve noticed that it changes and displays Sync then Lock then Sync and Lock and Sync again this remains for a while and switches back and forth so not sure if this is what it’s suppose to do or act like but most of the time it says the [ADAT1 Sync 44.1k]
I found out that I cannot even hear the Click on Cubase when I am recording or playbacking.(when it’s turned on with audio click)

I know that this post may be quite a read and I am sorry for that if I have bothered you in any way fellas but I’ve just tried to be as clear as I can be to explain you about my DAW issues in the hope that some of you experts out there who also has similar setups in place can understand where the problem lies within and or shed some light on this situation with some great advice/tips on how to set it up properly and help a musician who is still trying to get on and grow his family with trying to make Music alone only as well as help other users of the Forums who might have came accross with the same or any similar issue(s) and therefore could benefit from this post.

I’m now heading towards to post the same question in Steinberg’s Cubase/MR816CSX Forums to see if I can get any good advice from there and I will be happy to post out here as well if I can finally find a solution to it.

If you need any further details and or any other information regarding this matter then
please do let me know as I am quite happy to provide you with any info that is available to me just to be able to resolve it in the end.

They say that a picture can say a 1000 words.
Therefore,I’ve wanted to share with you my current Setting Views for both RME Raydat and MR816 along with some extra optional setting view screenshots that is available to use so that you can see it for yourself to get the grasps of what other options are available to me to use with the settings of the both RME/MR816.

Please do us all a great favour and post ahead your suggestions and if you can go ahead and even post a few screenshots of your current matrix window of TotalMix/RME/MR816 settings if you’re using my above described setup and or any similar working setuphonestly that would be a life saver to me and for all other dudes and dudettes out there, I am really interested in to hear about your advice.

I appreciate anyone reading this post and I would like to thank to all of you who can probably offer any valuable help in regards to resolving this matter.

Best to you all and peace.

Here is the links to some screenshots that may give you an idea about what’s going on with my current setup…I am waiting with my fingers arms and legs crossed :wink:

Tried to take Screenshots for all available settings here and I am quite open minded to hear what you think might work the best in my case…

http://tinypic.com/r/191dmv/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2m76uth/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2ro5c08/7
http://tinypic.com/r/28cn1pt/7
http://tinypic.com/r/v419q0/7
http://tinypic.com/r/11ah6iu/7
http://tinypic.com/r/1g61zb/7
http://tinypic.com/r/aagbqr/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2nk3136/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2cff8e9/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2gwaq9s/7
http://tinypic.com/r/23ua1ig/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2jcww94/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2pyyhat/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2ia3aeb/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2i7y04x/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2mplpjl/7


Cheers.

Thejazzy:
OK, first check that either the RME or the MR is the master clock, personally, I set the MR to internal and the RME to adat.
In the MR mixer, route all the analog ins to adat outs. To do this, select an adat out on the right and then bring up two analog ins (volume) in the mixer (make sure there are no other channels up) and pan hard left and right (also, bring up the output) . I.E, adat 1&2 out has analog 1&2 in, adat 3&4 has analog 3&4 etc.
Now, select an analog out on the right (sat analog 1&2) and bring up adat in 1&2 ONLY in the MR mixer Also, bring up the output, Make sure all are set to 0.db. Do this for the other 3 pairs.

One very cool feature of the RME mixer is the monitoring section. On the right, choose adat 1&2 as the “mian”, adat 3&4 for the first “monitor phones” and so on. This has 2 very important functions. 1, it lets you cahnge your mixes by just selecting the apprpropriate monitor tab, but my favourite is, it also sends that mix to your main outs so can instantly here one of your cue mixes through your speakers, brilliant.
Not only that, this can be switched via a simple midi ciontroller (I use a Behringer nano).

So now, you should have your 8 analog ins coming in on the first 8 channels ot the RME mixer and you should have 4 completely independent stereo mixes (one main and three phones).
In Cubase, use the “Control Room” mixer to route separate mixes, one for the mains, three for 3 seaparate cue/headphone mixes. So, in the Cubase I/O setup, go to Control Room and enable adat 1&2 as your main out (Contol Room) , 3&4 as your 1st “studio send” and so on. I don’t have any output s in the I/O section enabled, only Contol Room.
If you don’t want to set up a cuemix from every channel in Cubase, you can just use the Studio sends on the main strereo out.

Now, of course, you enable these DAW outs in your RME mixer. This is the second row of faders. Make sure you have the first 2 ONLY for the “main” mix, the 2nd pair ONLY for the first cue mix etc.

THE MR is a very cool interface but has some serious shortcomings (IMO). The main one being it’s integration with Cubase. Make sure (and it seems you’ve done this) you don’t install the “Extensions”.
Also, there appears to be no way of disabling the master encoder on the front whaich affects ALL outputs. This is really bad and you have to be so carefull if you’re using the MR as an adat slave. BTW, Im thinking this could be why you aren’t hearing anything via your master outs. I use the front MR encoders for adjusting phones ONLY!

Advanced: If you want to use the MR reverb you can, but it’s complicated. Basically, you have to waste one of your analog output pairs (say 7&8). Use that mix as your reverb send (disable all adat ins) and enable the return on whichever output you need (probably the the cue/headphone mix(s)). Now, bring the fader AND reverb send (it’s post fade only unfortunately, otherwise tou wouldn’t have to waste a mix) for each channel you want reverb on.

Hi again,first of all I’d like to thank you guys for listening to my problem and chiming in here to help me resolve it…

I’ve tried every single settings that was available to me but still could get it to work and it was almost driving Nuts…
But finally I got it all WORKING with a simple solution…That’s very simple indeed.

What I did was I’ve made sure that everything was assigned properly in both Mixers as before and the settings were almost similar as it’s suppose to be and all but the culprit was the ADAT4 port in my case because as soon as I changed the ADAT 4 cable and plug it into ADAT1 on Raydat Voila! I get the sounds both when I am recording and playing it back so it started working as it’s suppose to,now I am not really sure what was the deal with the ADAT4 port but I am glad that my setup is now finally working,I also like to thank anyone who tried to offer help here such as karltd,edwonbass who Pmmed/Mailed me also but especially tobeatpete who went into great detail and explained me all about his similar setup settings so thank you all and thank you Pete, I really appreciate it.

Btw,pete I checked it before and now and my Master Level Encoders were all the way UP in the front of the MR816 so it could not be the issue but it was acting a bit funky (as soon as I touch the encoders I could see that they were all the way up but then the blue lights were going OFF I am not sure why)therefore I saw an option in the MR816 Mixer which says Master Level Meter On,Off I clicked on it I think I deactivated it again not sure if this is right or wrong but that way the blue light remains as Lid so I think it is ok that way…

Also I am not too sure about whether I’d have the Externally Clocked on or off within Cubase from the Devices.>Device Setup>Asio Hammerfall DSP…?

As you can see,I’ve finally managed to get it all to work and tried the exact same settings just like Pete has suggested and I confirm that it’s all working fine now though I am not a fan of using the Control Room Mixer of Cubase and it’s direct monitoring but it’s all working ok now which is what matter the most so with this sort of setup,I might try couple of other routings options instead of using the Control Room of Cubase to be able to control the things with my SPL Monitor Controler and other gears in use such as Headphone Amps can be properly routed at the end I have much to go on and explore such as using the MR’s effects too perhaps but hey it’s all working now so I am really happy.

Just to let you know that I made sure everything was properly panned and routed again,(I saved my mixer presets too)I also adjusted both mixer’s stereo pan law to be the same(i.e.0db) and I’ve gone ahead and set it all up as you can see from the new screenshots below this is I think the exact setup that Pete has described above and it’s working just fine so thank you again.

I hope that the other RME & MR816 users can see it too if they ever like to use a similar setup therefore also benefit from this post in the future, cheers.

Here is the new WORKING screenshoots of the settings and mixer view’s exactly as described in beatpete'squote above…

MR816CSX Settings;
http://tinypic.com/r/161yheh/7

Raydat HDSPe DSP Settings;
http://tinypic.com/r/33e0ylx/7

MR816CSX Mixer Routing Views Analog-1-8;

http://tinypic.com/r/30rmmxf/7
http://tinypic.com/r/a3hxr8/7
http://tinypic.com/r/osea2w/7
http://tinypic.com/r/6psz1x/7

MR816CSX Mixer Routing Views ADAT-1-8;

http://tinypic.com/r/2arhw8/7
http://tinypic.com/r/ip6z5e/7
http://tinypic.com/r/20kaagp/7
http://tinypic.com/r/358ypf9/7

Raydat’s TotalMix Routing Example with 1ch input only;
http://tinypic.com/r/10db9yd/7
http://tinypic.com/r/2cz7mgn/7
http://tinypic.com/r/s2zkuv/7

Raydat TotalMix’s Matrix View;
http://tinypic.com/r/2liepvr/7

I found the explanation by BeatPete very useful and informative.

I use ProTools LE 8 with a Steinberg MR816X connected through ADAT to the DigiDesign Rack+ interface, which is
connected by firewire to my computer.

My problem was that the 8 ADAT channels coming into the DigiDesign Rack+ unit from the Steinberg MR816X were not discrete. That is, the audio coming into ProTools from each of the 8 input audio channels originating from the ADAT connection to the Steinberg MR816X was the same as every other MR816X/ADAT input audio channel. Each ADAT channel audio was the same, and was the sum of the audio on all eight of those ADAT channels. (I slaved the clock over ADAT from the DigiDesign Rack+ to the MR816X).

Searching this forum for “ADAT”, I found this thread. The explanation above by BeatPete about setting up the individual ADAT output channels using the MR Editor mixer was perfect, and is not covered in the MR816X manual either. It ought to be. Now that I’ve set it up the way it is described above, it works great, and makes perfect sense.

I had assumed that the “default” behavior of the MR816X’s 8 ADAT outputs would be like this - the 8 mic inputs mapping to the 8 ADAT outputs one-to-one. Well, it’s not - the “default” is just to mix all 8 inputs together equally in each of the 8 ADAT outputs.

Thanks for spelling this all out, BeatPete. It helped me a lot.

Maybe this is too simplistic and I’m missing something, but if you are connecting the first MR816’s ADAT out to the RayDat’s ADAT 1 IN should you not be using the RayDat’s ADAT 1 OUT back to the MR816 not ADAT 4 OUT ?

Your second MR816’s ADAT IN and OUT would then be connect to thr RayDAt 2 IN and OUT and so on…