Independent dynamics for stems up and down

Dorico
1

I’m working on a handbell piece and want separate dynamics for and upstem and downstem voices in both the treble and bass staves.

The project file is here. The problem bars are 151 to 170.

Version2.dorico (791.9 KB)

I had originally used the Aria VST3 handbell sounds.

I had posted a question about problems with going into Play and muting one track and Dorico would also mute others. At the time I was told I needed Aria Player VST2. As part of this I was told that in the Aria panel there is “1/2” and I should switch some voices to “3/4” and “5/6” but on clicking on it all the options other than “1/2” were grayed out.

I wasn’t so sure I wanted to track down VST2 and that composition was complete, so I didn’t pursue it.

Then this problem came along and I thought it might be related.

In doing a search on my computer I discovered a folder named VST2 with Aria files in it. In Dorico I followed the procedures to unblock VST2 instruments.

So I tried out Aria VST2 for this project. I still didn’t get the dynamic independence I want. When on the Aria panel and click on “1/2” I still don’t have choices.

In Play I replaced the Aria player with the HALion piano sound. It also doesn’t play the dynamics the way I want. I’m aware that could be because HALion is VST3.

I thought perhaps part of the problem might be each voice needs its own dynamic markings, which is why bars 151-2 have a lot more markings than 155-6. That didn’t make any difference.

My particular complaints in playback are that in bar 153 the treble staff remains at “ff” rather than dropping back to “mf” and in bar 155 the treble staff drops to “mp” like the bass clef does.

I switched back to the Aria VST2 player before saving the project.

What is going on and what do I do to get independent dynamics?

This summer I’ll be teaching how to use Dorico to a class of handbell composers who have been using and continue to use Finale. I may need to explain this to them, maybe not in class, definitely in class notes.

2

I don’t have that VST but I didn’t read above that you enabled independent voice playback. That would be the first thing to do. Then you’ll need to add the same patch to a free slot (or maybe a new VST, like I said, I don’t have that one), and route it correctly to each voice.

Also, in order to apply the dynamics to each voice, you need have the caret active, then Shift+d , pick the dynamic and then Alt+enter

3

I did enable independent voice playback. I didn’t mention it because I thought that would be visible in the project I included.

4

Sorry, I don’t have Aria so I can’t be of much more help. There are a few Aria users that hang around here.

5

This is more than Aria. I have the same problem with HALion.

6

ok, I’ll poke around the file with Halion.

7

Opening your project and going right to Play mode I see your Handbell instrument only has 2 voices enabled. The upper staff (a and b) are all that are available.

Screenshot 2026-01-05 at 10.53.27
Screenshot 2026-01-05 at 10.53.271144×878 84.8 KB

I then just clicked around the lower staff, auditioning notes and suddenly, all 4 are enabled:

Screenshot 2026-01-05 at 10.54.24
Screenshot 2026-01-05 at 10.54.241134×990 89.5 KB

Why? No idea.

EDIT: I should also add that I applied the playback template first, opened Halion to see the slots and it only had 3 instances. (Staff 1 (a, b), Staff 2). After clicking around, a fourth instance was added. Could be a bug having to do with grand staff, multi-voice independence.

8

Now that possible bugs are being discussed I realized I did leave out an important bit of information. I’m using Dorico 5. If this is a problem in 5 that has been fixed in 6 then, of course, the solution is to upgrade.

9

I opened it in 6 (the newest) and it still only showed the upper staff as independent, so it’s not version dependent.

Did fiddling with the lower staff enable the independent lower staff voices?

10

I’m not sure what “fiddling” means.

I just saw another thing useful to the discussion: At the top of the document there is a flow that will eventually be the (hand)bell used chart. That flow is named “BUC” and I’ll never do playback there. The flow involved in this question is “Music.” Flipping from one flow to the other will get you the two-track and four-track situation.

I usually only think of the BUC flow when I need to make the chart.

11

Simply clicking on notes in the bottom staff, both voices. You will also notice that the mixer only has 3 audio outputs for staff 1(a), staff 1(b) and staff 2. That’s a sign something is off.

The file opens with the Music flow directly at mm. 150.

12

While the file opens in Write on bar 150, when I switch the newly opened file to Play it opens with BUC as the active flow. That may be what you saw at the beginning of your efforts.

Clicking on the notes when in Write didn’t change anything in playback, though it reminded me that clicking on individual notes produces a sound at the same dynamic that I would hear in playback. This is another way I can verify what dynamic is being applied to the note.

When I clicked on Enable Independent Voice Playback, back when I first started trying to make the dynamics independent Dorico gave me the audio setup of “02 Aria Player” and “03 Aria Player.” I think I was the one who went through and set the channel numbers. If voices are to be independent why wasn’t a 4th given? And where is “01 Aria Player”?

My earlier forum question was about muting single tracks in Play. So I tried it, clicking on mute for "Staff (a) downstem 1.” The mute for both Staff b tracks also turned on. At the time I was told I needed Aria VST2, which I now am using.

Which leads to a question for you derAbgang: While I said the problem also exists in HALion is HALion VST3? Is that why you are seeing the problems that I was told would go away, but didn’t, with VST2?

You will also notice that the mixer only has 3 audio outputs for staff 1(a), staff 1(b) and staff 2. That’s a sign something is off.

I agree something is off. What that something is and how to remedy it is what I’m trying to find out.

13

Yes indeed. I didn’t even notice. And of course, “fiddling” in the Music flow and switching to Play shows the 4 lanes correctly.

VST 01, I believe is reserved for the Dorico Beep. Any user-added VSTs start numbering at 2.

Now, I hate to utter this phrase, as I work in software development, but: “It works for me”. After all this back and forth, I actually went to a different measure without dynamics and alt-entered different dynamics with the caret active on different voices and it worked correctly. Are you certain you input the dynamics with caret active and alt+enter? There’s nothing in the status bar to tell you which voice the dynamic is attached to and the Halion bells don’t have a very wide dynamic range so I had to watch the faders to really see the difference in voices. I didn’t grab it perfectly, but you can see the differing levels:

Screenshot 2026-01-05 at 13.10.29
Screenshot 2026-01-05 at 13.10.291824×892 174 KB

Yes, VST3. Dorico 6 doesn’t load VST2 anymore unless you explicitly whitelist them.

Typically, reapplying the playback template should resolve some of these issues. If after re-applying the template, do you see 1 fader in the mixer for each of the 4 voices? If you still only have 3, then you are probably better served creating a Diagnostics file (Help → Create Diagnostics) and dropping it here.

14

I did not add the dynamics with the carat active. I did put dynamics on different staves and the dynamics on one staff affect what I hear in the other staff. When that gets sorted out I’ll worry about the differing dynamics on the two voices of one staff.

Yes, I had whitelisted Aria VST2 and had tried it out. I was told that was a fix to the problem and it turns out not to be.

What do you mean by “reapplying the playback template”?

Thanks for telling me about Help > Create diagonstics.

15

Have you consulted the manual about how to enter voice-specific dynamics (and checked the related links)?

Voice-specific dynamics • Dorico Pro Help • Reader • Steinberg

16

I will do so, though there is still the issue of the dynamics of one staff affecting another.

17

Likely that is because you failed to enter them correctly.

(EDIT: @dspreadbury I would welcome the ability to show voice-specific dynamics in the same colours as their relevant voices)

6 Likes
18

No, it was because I hadn’t read the bit in the manual about the default affecting all staves of an instrument. Now that 'I’ve read it I’ll give it a try. Thank you.

Dynamics in the same color as the voice sounds like a fine idea.

19

Now that I’ve read the bit in the manual and tried it out. I get this:

image
image576×260 19.8 KB

Measure 153 does have the expected dynamics. For the lower staff stem down I had put in the popover “mp<ff” then dragged the “ff” to the position I want. But the cresc appears to have no effect on that voice. The cresc for the other voices do have an effect.

I also find that I have to exit the popover with “Alt-Enter” to get the marking to apply to the voice, even though the manual says nothing about that. Did I get it wrong?

I apologize in insisting there was a problem in Play (though I think there is a problem there that has nothing to do with dynamics), even after I was told what to do in the first reply.

20

Play → Playback Template

Pick any one with Halion Sonic in it, Apply & Close. That rebuilds the entire playback infrastructure so any mixer changes you made or custom VSTs you added, will be lost.