Instrument names do not display as expected

In the music of the Baroque period, the “basso continuo” instrument was entrusted to various instruments, the violone, the harpsichord, the organ, the cello, etc. etc.
So it is not a tool in the strict sense.
This is a case that often happens to me, since I mainly transcribe music from the Baroque period.
My advice is to use 2 different instruments, first of all, so for example organ and cello, or organ and harpsichord and rename them “Basso continuo”.
Keep in mind that the treble clef staff can be hidden and so the bass clef staff remains.
Then in order not to make the second basso continuo part appear, it is sufficient to consider it as the conductor’s score without the second basso continuo (which you will use when printing only the parts).
So in summary: transcribe all the instruments on a score, and then create a conductor’s score (let’s call it that for simplicity), where you will only insert the staves of the instruments found in the conductor’s manuscript, where there will certainly not be that of the second continuo. being a detached part.
I hope I was clear.
Regards.


Nella musica del periodo barocco, lo strumento “basso continuo” era affidato a diversi strumenti, il violone, il clavicembalo, l’organo, il violoncello ecc ecc.
Quindi non è uno strumento in senso stretto.
Questo è un caso che mi capita spesso, visto che io trascrivo soprattutto musica del periodo barocco.
Il mio consiglio è quello di utilizzare 2 strumenti differenti, innanzi tutto, quindi ad esempio organo e violoncello, oppure organo e clavicembalo e rinominarli “Basso continuo”.
Considera che il rigo della chiave di violino può essere nascosta e così resta il rigo della chiave di basso.
Poi per non far apparire la parte del secondo basso continuo, è sufficiente considerare come la partitura del direttore senza il secondo basso continuo (che utilizzerai quando stamperai solo le parti).
Quindi ricapitolando: trascrivi su una partitura tutti gli strumenti, e poi crei una partitura del direttore (chiamiamola così per semplicità), dove inserirai soltanto i righi degli strumenti che si trovano nel manoscritto del direttore, dove non vi sarà certamente quella del secondo basso continuo essendo una parte staccata.
Spero di essere stato chiaro.
Saluti.

Thank you @Lillie_Harris ! After I understood the situation, then for this particular scenario I chose just to rename the second continuo instrument, which will be invisible in full socre.

@times007 , yes, this is exactly what I want to do (I only transcribe Baroque music but have so far done it mainly in Lilypond; I need to have one player with the figured bass, but e.g. the cello and violone don’t need it, and the conductor does not need to see all the staves). However, if you have two players with the same name X, then even if only the first one is visible in the Conductor Score, its instrument name will display as ‘X I’ – that was the issue I was struggling with.

Hello,
yes I understand perfectly well, but the point is that you don’t have to use the same tool at the beginning, so I suggest you do it like this:
You choose the cello and you rename it B.c.
Choose the organ and rename it B.c. (then hide the treble clef staff).
Because if you choose 2 instruments with the same name, Dorico will inevitably rename it 1 and 2.

In addition, when you insert the ciphered bass numbers, Dorico gives you the possibility to define on which staff to insert the numbers.
The problem comes when you have to enter different numbers for each staff.
For example, in the first tool you want to put only 53 for that tool (vertically of course), and in the second only 75 for that tool.
Dorico replicates the numbers on both staves, so it’s not good.
I advise you to use the Figurato font on one of the staves instead, which being an independent font from Dorico does not affect the other staff.
I hope I have explained.

To be perfectly frank, I don’t really understand what you’re suggesting. [quote=“times007, post:5, topic:721838”]
You choose the cello and you rename it B.c.
Choose the organ and rename it B.c. (…) Because if you choose 2 instruments with the same name, Dorico will inevitably rename it 1 and 2.
[/quote]But if I really rename 2 staves so that they ultimately have the same name, then if in my layout only one is present, Dorico will still display it as ‘1’ or ‘2’.

Could you tell me what you mean by “when you insert the ciphered bass numbers, Dorico gives you the possibility to define on which staff to insert the numbers.”? I click on a staff, press Shift-G and enter the ciphers. (So the first step is me manually choosing the staff.) Is there a different method?

Thank you very much for the help, I really appreciate it!

I’ll show you the first bar of a score I’m finishing up.
As you can see, even if there are 2 cellos, they are not close so there is no risk of having a 1 cello and a 2 cello.
The figured bass is found both on the cello and on the organ but it is a part.
So I created a complete score for the organ too and then when I do the conductor score, I exclude the organ and that’s it.

As a font for the cipher bass, I use Figured and not Doric.



Dorico allows you to define in which staff you can insert the cipher bass, however I noticed that if you define 2 staves, the numbers will be the same.
For this reason and also for others including the fact that I am asked to transcribe the numbers in the exact position in which they are, I am forced to use the Figurato font which still works very well.
In modern transcription it is preferred to insert the numbers from the higher number to the lower number, but the Publishing House asks me to insert them as per the manuscript, for example not 9753, but 5379 (vertically of course).
With Dorico I can’t put them exactly like this because he puts them in order (9753), but this is perhaps only my problem.
See video.

1 Like

If you want to show different figured bass on staves at the same rhythmic positions, you can input local figured bass for one of the staves (step 3). By default, figured bass in Dorico is global - the same implied harmony is applied to all staves set to show figured bass.

To show “5379”, input the “5,3” as if they were an octave higher (so 12,10) and then simplify the relevant figures.

Thanks, but that was just to give an example.

Thank you very much! I really appreciate you both taking time to reply, and special thanks to @times007 for making the video!

Let me show you what is a fairly typical situation in my case. Here’s the first part of a manuscript (which contains no list of instruments):


We just have a bottom staff with the figured bass and we actually have to go through the score to figure out who was supposed to play it. Here, e.g., we know from the stuff I circled, that a bassoon – if not two bassoons – were supposed to be a part of the continuo group. In other cases I can have e.g. the organ, one bassoon, a cello ‘solo’, a cello ‘ripieno’, and a violone, each playing different music (at times of course), with only the organ requiring the figured bass. In Lilypond I’d enter the whole content of the bottom staff once and use a nifty feature called ‘tags’ to generate its versions for the full score and parts. However, there are many things which are not so convenient in Lilypond, hence my switch to Dorico. Here, in turn, it seems that in a case such as the one just described I actually have to create five staves?.. and then choose which of them is to appear in the conductor’s score. Is that right?

Hi, actually it seems to me that there are:

Tools:
Violins 1 and 2
Violet
Cello
Organ
Oboe 1 and 2
Bassoon 1

In the last bar it seems to me that it is written “Tutto Aperto” referring to the organ.

The basso continuo is only for the cello, not for the bassoon.
About the various instruments you see indicated: I think they are indications of when these instruments play in their part.

Well, that’s from an old project I did years ago, just as an example. My point is that I typically have one staff labelled ‘continuo’ (or not labelled at all) which contains condensed music for the whole continuo group, and that might involve even up to five separate parts or more. And the conductor’s score really needs just that one staff. This is from a different piece, where the ‘continuo’ and ‘ripieno’ groups were clearly distinguished by the composer himself:


This contains all the information the conductor needs, and actually defines 3 parts: for the organ, for the string continuo group, and for the string ripieno group. In Dorico, as far as I understand it, I’d need to create 3 staves - or even 4: one for the conductor, and 3 for the organ / continuo string group / ripieno string group.

So it’s just a question of having a group of tools for visualization?
For example: you have an orchestra where in one view, you have the group of strings (violin, viola, cello and continuo), in another you have the brass and the continuo and lastly you have that of the conductor who has the whole set of tools.

If that’s what you need it’s very simple because it’s about filtering out the instruments you don’t need in each score.

So create a new score, then decide which instruments you want in this view and so also for the other (there are 3 no?) Views and you won’t need to do anything else.
The third, that of the director, will have all the tools.

Although, frankly, I don’t really know what a division like this can do for you …

See video

Well, in turn, I have no idea how to work without such a division. The stuff I prepare will be performed. So on the basis of that one line in the manuscript, say, four staves need to be created: just as an example, one for the conductor’s score, one for the organ, one for the cello, and one for the bassoon. In Lilypond I input the music once and use tags. In Dorico, it seems, I need to actually manually create four staves and four copies of the music. This is highly inefficient in the likely case that I make a mistake: I might be forced to correct it four times!

Anyway, thank you very much for your help, I will investigate this more…

Hi, I’m sorry maybe we didn’t understand each other, but once you have transcribed it in the conductor’s score, you can then create subsequent parts by filtering the various instruments.
Basically write 1 time and then all you have to do is create parts by deciding which instruments you want in this or that view.

[quote=“times007, post:17, topic:721838”]
you can then create subsequent parts by filtering the various instruments.
Basically write 1 time and then all you have to do is create parts by deciding which instruments you want in this or that view.
[/quote]OH! I had no idea you can assign more than one instrument to a single staff, later to filter them out for the generation of parts – I searched the forums to no avail! (People we asking for this feature in 2016 and 2018, but I found no later updates…) Could you give me a hint on how to achieve that?

No, maybe we don’t understand each other because I’m Italian and to be able to write in English I use the Google translator which, I know, translates rather badly.

Usually 1 instrument = 1 staff, otherwise there is an option that allows you to explode a staff made up of 3 identical instruments (like 3 flutes) to create 3 staves with 1 flute per staff.
Or, on the contrary, to combine 2-3-4 instruments in the same staff.

But normally all instruments are transcribed as per manuscript and then parts are created for each instrument.
However, you can create (filtering) parts with different instruments based on the manuscript, for example: the group of strings, or the organ and choir group, choosing the instruments you want from time to time, etc. etc.
In the video I showed you that starting from the conductor’s score which has 2 choirs and 1 continuo, you can create parts in this way, that is, start with the first choir and continuo and start with the second choir and continuo, but right as an example.

Thank you![quote=“times007, post:19, topic:721838”]
But normally all instruments are transcribed as per manuscript and then parts are created for each instrument.
[/quote]Well, this is the problem: the manuscript contains one bottom staff for 4+ instruments and there’s no reason for the conductor’s score to include all of them: one will suffice.

I will ask my questions in a different thread, maybe I will be able to explain my problem better when I start over :slight_smile:

Thank you again!

Elwro,
what, if you just use the one bottom staff - like in the original - and hand out the part of this staff to all 4 players, one each?

Maybe if you show the first system (where the tools are) it would be a good idea, what do you think?

Thanks; I actually got a response from pianoleo here: Multiple Instruments = One Staff? - #9 by pianoleo It seems it’s not possible to do exactly what I want :slight_smile: So I will use one of the workarounds with multiple staves…

Ok, ciao… :slight_smile: