Irrational Meters: Question of Notation, I guess?

Dear all,

I have a question on how to best notate what’s in my head into Dorico.

What I want to achieve

I want the Drummer to hit 4 on the floor, but for one bar accelerate a little by playing 4 quintuplets (an incomplete quintuplet), before going back to the original 4/4 tempo (thus being shifted relatively to the rest of the orchestra by one quintuplet).

I want to notate this visually clear, and tried the following solution:

I want the 4/5 bar to be exactly 4/5 long, which only works if I:

  • create a quintuplet
  • enter the 4/5 (locally)
  • on the 5th quintuplet, enter a 4/4 (locally)

But in this way, my tuplet spans into the next bar, which I don’t want to. But if I now delete the tuplet, the quarters will be played back in the regular tempo…
I am somewhat losing my mind and thus wanted to ask the hivemind: how to best achieve what I am after in Dorico?

Also: in my current solution, the following hit is a quarter note, but displayed with a quarter tied to a whole note??

As you’ve seen, when you write x/y meter you get a bar where y = the largest power of 2 ≤ the denominator – in practice 4/5 makes a bar of 4/4. So I would just write 4/5 for everybody, change the tempo by 125% for that bar, and reset it for the 4/4. No need for a quintuplet.

Thanks, yes, that would work if it was a global time signature, and that’s how I have done it in the past. But this is a local one, with the goal of slightly offset bars after the 4/5 meter.

I seem to understand more and more about the irrational time signatures in Dorico, as in they are actually not really giving you anything special. A 4/5 is still a 4/4 but looks different.

What I need is a bar with a length of 3.2 quarters. Everything else I could fake from there.
I am considering just faking it with a local 5/4 pickup-bar of 3.25 quarters length, a hidden 16:13x tuplet and a custom line for me open tuplet.

I would be interested if anyone has a better idea though?

This is what I came up with. It’s close enough for my playback, but not technically correct. I thought that Dorico was able to handle such a notation, but for now it seems that it’s actually not there yet.

So then the drums just stay 1/5 ahead of everyone else after that?
That was my next question: How do they sync up later?

I mean technically, they are now 3 sixteenth ahead of everyone else, but in performance they would be 1/5 ahead, yes.

I am in the process of composing right now, but there will be processes of the soloists joining each other and separating again, while the orchestra is playing pretty much non metered music.
The whole procedure is just another way to showcase the soloists virtuosity :slight_smile: