Is the latest version setting CC7, the plugin master volume, to 100 again when you start playback? I thought this program intervention had been abandoned but in recent balancing tests I am doing, it seems to set CC7 to 100 again.
I have noticed that dorico sets at least CC 1 to a medium-high level when starting playback. This is using the MIDI instrument side, sending midi to another program. It causes quiet dynamics to start with a loud ”pop”.
I wish there was a setting to not do this when starting playback.
I have CC1 as a secondary controller in my expression map, perhaps it is related to that?
It used to be the Master volume in most plugins CC7. I am sure that I read some where that this had been abandoned as from a certain version but I cannot.find this info anymore and in the project I am working on Dorico definitely sets back CC7 to 100 and I have to go through my whole template again and change CC7 to CC3 to avoid this. I checked and un- checked the preference under Play " Reset controllers and send “all notes off” when stopping playback" but that does not seem to work.
can someone confirm that CC7 is still set to 100 when playback starts?
If you open Dorico’s mixer and show MIDI, extra MIDI channel strips appear which allow you to set the values for MIDI volume (CC7) and MIDI pan (CC10) for each instrument. By default, the value for CC7 is 100 and the value for CC10 is 64. These are the values that Dorico sends for each instrument when playback starts.
Thanks John, Is this procedure documented in a Dorico manual anywhere?
I apparently dreamt that I read that this resetting had been abandoned a few months ago. For VSL libraries this procedure will overwrite all library balancing presets for CC7 which as mentioned in many earlier threads is the method used by VSL to balance all orchestral instruments against each other for users. Setting these same values for 100 or so instruments in some hidden midi channels instead of in the Synchron Player is really not a good option.
Why should a program decide that CC’s are to be set to what ever value? Even when you can override the values, it should simply playback at the settings for all CC’s the user has set in the connected plugins.
I just wasted hours again resetting the CC7 values to balancing the instruments (a bit over 100 VSL instruments) and still have to revisit all pieces I mixed since a few months..
Look for MIDI in this help topic.
I investigated this by using a MIDI instrument (sending the MIDI from Dorico to Ableton and logging it there with a max for live plugin.
Here are the results:
When starting playback, Dorico sends the following CC messages on a single channel.
My expression map has two controllers for dynamics, CC4 (range 1-4) and CC5 (range 1-127).
In Dorico mixer, my pan is at R39 and volume at 44.
CCIN: 123 0
CCIN: 121 0
CCIN: 64 0
CCIN: 7 44
CCIN: 10 102
CCIN: 7 100
CCIN: 10 64
CCIN: 7 100
CCIN: 10 64
CCIN: 7 100
CCIN: 10 64
CCIN: 4 3
CCIN: 5 81
It seems that Dorico sends out the mean of the expression map controllers before starting playback. For me this has been frustrating, since it causes loud “pops” when the playback is started from a section with a pp -dynamic. I wish this behaviour could be removed or at looked at. @Ulf, perhaps it is a know issue or there is a good reason for this?
Also when clicking at notes on the track assigned to channel 1, dorico sends out CC messages for the notes. I have note audition set to OFF, but this still happens. This means that if I click notes during playback, it affects the volume of that instrument. This can mean a loud “pop” when listening to a pp -section and clicking somewhere. No matter what the dynamic of the note is (or what the expression map controller range is), Dorico simply always sends out the value 87 for both controllers. (From the users perspective I can see no reason for this, since it can be frustrating and there is no benefit).
(Also CC7 is set to 100 and CC10 is set to 64 when playback is turned on. Only when the first note comes in they are set to the (MIDI) values in the Dorico mixer.)
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Not to just complain, I figured out that for limited cases you can trick Dorico into sending those “unwanted” midiCC messages to a different channel.
I placed my two accordion channels into channels 6 and 7:
But in the expression map I set an absolute channel switch into channel 1 (and 2 for channel 7):
Now all the unwanted messages go into channels 6 & 7 and there is no unnecessary resetting of CC when clicking at notes or starting the playback. However, I wish this was the default behaviour, as I cannot do this for noteperformer.
Dorico uses the “Natural” -playback technique to determine the CC numbers for these messages, so another solution is to remove CC alltogether from the “Natural” -playback technique.
Hi @SampoKasurinen , you know I’m the audio engine specialist, but the audio engine is just a receiver of whatever MIDI stream Dorico sends to it. So this issue would need to get addressed on Dorico side.
Very interesting analysis. It is unclear why there is no chapter in the Dorico manual explaining all this in detail and also why the developers chose to impose the user certain start values of CC controllers which are used in most plugins but which often do not control the same parameter.
Setting values in expression maps is often not an option as in many libraries several instruments share the same expression map (e.g. violins 1, violins 2 and violas) but the starting values for the CC’s have to be different.
Always using exactly the same project template with all CC values send at the start seems to be the only work around. It is very time consuming to set this up though.
At the moment I am again battling with another well meant program intervention of adding a plugin in the VST rack when you activate independent voice playpack and add a voice. A nice example: I add a string divisi voice and Dorico adds a Drum&Bells VE Pro instance in the rack and it is also created in VE Pro 
I see, thank you and sorry for bothering!
I just wish these have an entry in Doricos internal backlog. (To me they seem like a “low hanging fruit” to fix - but what do I know… 
) I am just afraid they are thought as design choices and will never be addressed…
Let us hope there will soon be a button in the settings to set the CC reset on and off.
Dorico staff is really very involved to respond to user requests and occasional frustrations. The recent implementation of a new audio device being recognized without having to leave Dorico is a good example.
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