Is it possible to define note value by entering its mathematical fraction?

is it possible to define note value by entering its mathematical fraction??

Why would you want that? How would this be better that the numeric durations Dorico uses? Fraction of what? Breve, longa, maxima, crotchet? Are you actually wanting irrationals such as 1/7 of a crotchet? That’s what tuplets are for. Having trouble understanding the basis of the question. Please elaborate.

Well, you can change the value of a selected note by pressing a different number. As you increase the number by 1, you double the note value. So I guess you could say it’s a “log-a-rhythmic” relationship. :sunglasses:


I need to imitate fanned beams action - the accel. over regular steady notes like lets say accel. in fanned beams over let say a series of eight notes in regular steady tempo. Currently fanned beams in Dorico will not give Accel. it’s just a painting…

So @Ram_Haimoff that’s the real question. But players know fanned beams mean accellerando or rallentando. If it’s for playback, Dorico supports ‘accel’ - why not apply that? Or adjust the tempo in the tempo track? The latter has the advantage you don’t put a totally needless accel visible in the score.

Your initial question reads as though you want to enter something like 3/4 and have Dorico interpret that.

And no, you can’t enter decimal fractions.

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Well Andro - because in Dorico - if you use accel. - intending it for the fanned beams alone - you’ll end up finding out that it will affects not only the fanned beam music but at the same time also the entire music around it… so lets say you have a steady c major chord accompaniment in eight notes ( like c, g, e, g ) at the bass and you want a fanned beam at your higher octave - you’d go accel. right? But only to find out that your accompanying eight notes are rushing to… in a very crazy way…

But as I’ve said in a prior message - I have found a way to deal with this Dilemma by imitating via normal values notes the fanned beam ( via the dot addition , here the { alt + . } helps a lot ) and then - for the players sake - to put Dorico’s fanned beam painting as an ossia on top. of course I’ll have to make sure that the ossia wont be heard on playback.

Also Andro - if I wouldn’t care for playback I’d save myself the trouble and work like I did 30 years ago - with a sliced art pen and 3 sized rapidographes… (0.25, 0.35, 0.5) my hand writing for notation is beautiful enough… because believe me… sometimes it’s hard enough to say enough is enough even though Dorico is relatively user friendly with a lovely support team. 2nd reason for playback is the $$$$ it’d cost me to pay for players to rehearse and record the piece or perform it just for a single time… let alone finding players capable and willing enough to play it… for these players are most likely to perform for large hall audience or simply have their cut playing Mozart lovely piano sonatas… I hope I’ve answered your questions.
Best - Rami.

Out of interest, is this (playback of fanned beams) something that any other notation program can do?

Hi there… you know - long time ago ( I have written this piece in 1990 or so - , no one could play it so I left it but 10 years after I’ve entered it into the computer ) I’ve used cakewalk to do it. If you wouldn’t mind listening to the result you can visit my sound cloud. its pretty o.k. and if I recall correctly I could have done it there - because obviously there was no fanned beam back then ( 2002 ) and I think I did the whole thing using cakewalke piano roll. If you’d wish - to avoid self advertisement I’ll send you the link to your private message box.

Let me be more specific: can Sibelius, Finale or MuseScore play back fanned beams accurately?
(Andro, seeing as you’re here - can Lilypond?)

I’m interested to know if your feature request is something in which Dorico is an outlier (i.e. the others have done it), or something that none of the other big players have tackled yet.

Dear Pianoleo.

I do not posses neither of these softwares.
I have seen the fanned beam icon in Sibelius ultimate, I think it exist in finale too, b4 I bought Dorico I have tried them and somehow Dorico was to me more adaptable then the two others. I believe that Sibelius can do it and your friend here says he is planning to have this and other qualities implemented onto Dorico however - not in the near future and I do understand that this endeavor demands serious allocations on behalf of the company. I have asked from a friend of mine to check it out but he’ll take his time. That said - I’m somehow positive that Sibelius can do this.
Yet again - as I’ve said to Andro - I have found my way around this Dilemma and after all the work I’ve put through - it is obvious I’d like to stick to Dorico if I can.
Yet - serving the fanned beam icon and presenting the reality of a regular note - is problematic not only by the way it concerns music but also concerning truth in publicity - because you are not giving the public what that icon implies…
That said - there are certainly many good things that you do give…

Let’s get a couple of things straight:

  1. Though I think after this number of years I probably (hopefully!) can refer to Daniel as my friend, I’m a Dorico user; I don’t work for Steinberg and never have done.
  2. I’ve just checked Sibelius - there’s no obvious way of persuading fanned beams to play with accel./dim. Sure, you can apply a visual fanned beam as you can in Dorico, but it plays back as even 16ths/semiquavers or whatever the underlying note values are. I may be wrong, of course; I’m just wondering if you’re expecting something that’s been successfully implemented in other notation programs, or something that doesn’t exist outside of the DAW world (and this is an open question to users of any of the programs I mentioned, given this is an open discussion forum, not a private conversation).

See this Scoring Notes article.

As you will see, the only way to approximate playback is to use tuplets. You can use exactly the same method in Dorico and get the same result.

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You might find this video interesting. The guy is talking about notating aleatoric music with Sibelius mentioning that most of what he does is “fack” . At a certain point one may ask if a notation program is the tool needed or a photoshop… surely the advantage notation prog. is giving us is sound per graphics in beautiful fonts… in that respect the option to add sampling to the graphics in a notation prog. will be a great advantage.
I think it’ll be lovely to have notation prog. brings about aleatoric music into DAW. I mean in programing languages you have the - functions equals to - and this is exactly it. I also believe that the fanned beam question is not as complex as dealing with how composers are writing their aleatoric scores and there for can be added in successfully , the guy in the movie speaks even about using a graphic board like thouse from Wacom attached to the computer and drawing the score in Sibelius or use Adobe Illustrator for that, regarding the discussion on fractions - he brings in the composer Chaya Czernowin score who writes fractions at the meter… I would’nt know how to decipher this though check the movie if you will…

I’ve done this with series of dotted notes, will check tuplets.
I have solved my Dilemma.
For scoring purposes, I’ll need to hide the notes being used to produce the fanned beam fx and replace the audible result with the fanned beam graphics - I am not sure how to do this so I’ll use ossia for that I think…

p.s. → checked with tuplets - there is no difference in the sound phenomena resulted.

I envision that somewhere there is a young relative of yours rolling their eyes at another Dad joke. :slight_smile:

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