I’m trying to add a 13/8 bar using the popover, and the most it will give me is 12/8. Does Dorico put some kind of a limit on the numerator size?
I tried this both using the popover and the gizmo on the right.
I also tried the popover using [2+2+2+2+2+3]/8 but that didn’t work any better, and when it prefilled an empty bar with rests, rather than a whole rest it adds: eighth, quarter, three dotted quarter rests (which adds up to 12/8) and doesn’t match the sequence I specified in the popover.
In the original score it’s 13/8 but is marked 5/4+3/8 above (conductor’s instructions), and I could do it that way and might later, but for now I’d like to keep 13/8 because if I divide it, it will throw off my measure count to the end, and I’ve got probably a couple of weeks worth of note entry still ahead of me.
Even if I give in and do it that way, specifying 13/8 should not give me 12/8.
I should add that I’ve written other music that uses higher numerators, e.g. a song that is mostly in 18/16, which is actually 6/16+3/4, but I split that into separate measure. Finale had no problem with it.
EDIT: Just a thought. Is there another time signature (or manual barline) downstream of the bar you want to add the 13/8? If so, there may not be room for Dorico to create a complete bar. In which case you would have to use one of the insert modes to create extra space.
Thanks Janus. I’m pretty sure I’m using the correct syntax, but I reread the whole section in the Popover Reference to see if I’m overlooking something. The meters I’ve been entering have one been of the following patterns:
Shift+M 4/4 — ordinary meter
Shift+M 3/8 — also ordinary meter
Shift+M [2+2+3]/8 — 7/8 shows but Dorico groups it as 2+2+3, though I haven’t seen a lot of evidence that that’s true. Sometimes if I use Force Duration in note entry it helps write things the way I want them.
But I’ve discovered a clue that there’s something wrong: I have a growing scratch file where I can experiment or add little bits. When I do these in the scratch file they are correct.
This suggests that something has gotten confused inside the project file. I wouldn’t have a clue what.
Nothing has been entered from here to the end. I have empty 4/4 bars for the remaining two-thirds of the piece. I could try deleting the measure where I’m first having trouble and maybe a few more after it and then start again at that place to see if the problem just magically goes away.
I’d like to avoid that, though, because it doesn’t answer the question of what’s wrong and why.
Remove the notes? You mean the pitches and rhythms and leave just the empty bars? Is there a fast way to do that?
Is there a special trick to doing that with Dorico files? I remember in comparison sending project files from Apple Logic Pro. A Logic project isn’t just one file but a whole archive of sometimes hundreds of them, often more than a gigabyte in total, and the file that you see (Projectname.logicx) is not just a normal file in the usual sense but something that works as both a directory and a file.
Or can I just copy a Dorico file like I would a normal software app output file and then monkey with the contents of that and send it?
BTW, I use Dorico 6.1.10 on an up-to-date M4 iMac.
All right I’ve taken your suggestion and have randomized the notes. That sure does randomize them all right.
I’ve uploaded the file. It should come up in write mode with Galley view. The problem spot is measure 65. It’s presently a 5/4 + 3/8, but as you can see from adding the rests or the duration of the one note in that measure, there are 11 eighths in the measure, not 13.
To review:
It was originally 13/8, entered Shift+M 13/8
I also tried Shift+M [2+2+2+2+2+3]/8
I also tried Shift+M 5/4|3/8, as you see here.
On the second bullet, I thought I may have inadvertently typed Shift+M [2+2+2+2+3], two eighth notes short, but I don’t think so. All three insist on making a short measure.
Note that I’ve had no trouble of this sort.
Note also that this is my first major project after an initial 8-bar hymn style song to get the hang of note entry.
I’m anxious to know what you see. Thanks for your trouble to anyone who looks.
Hi @Lynn_Newton, you can see in the Proofreadings, that that bar indeed has a quarter less then expected. A fast way to correct this is to activate insert mode in Global Adjustment of current bar scope, and reapply the TS (selecting it and pressing Enter twice): Dorico will automatically correct the bar. (You can the correct the tie chain). Deactivate Insert mode when you are done!
(You could also select the eight rest > Shift+B > 1q > Enter, but this will also break the tie chain):
Or, if you like, you can just delete the 4/4 (which was the placeholder that possibly cause the short bar), and your bar 65 will fall into place:
Wow. {@Christian_R}'s response certainly requires the wisdom of an alchemist to solve this problem! Bravo. Umm … but I still have some questions. I’ll address them out of order.
I first tried the suggestion of selecting the eighth rest and entering poughkeepsie 1q. This did indeed fix it, but I don’t know what you mean about breaking the tie chain unless you’re referring to the music that exists in the example. Recall that {@Janus} suggested randomizing all the notes, which I did. In addition to scrambling it beyond recognition, it pushed the beginning three or four bars forward. The point is that the G you see in the bass clef that exends the full value of the bar is not in the original. In fact the original is still blank because that’s where I left off when for whatever reason I got the wrong number of eighths in that bar. There’s nothing in that bar that would be hurt by this solution.
A fast way to correct this is to activate insert mode in Global Adjustment
of current bar scope,
I’m afraid I don’t know what you mean by the last six words above. Maybe I don’t need to since the problem seems to be fixed.
If I had deleted the 4/4 bar before the 5/4+3/8, that would have been a problem. It’s not a placeholder in the original as you suggest but is the last measure I’ve done in entering notes on this unreasonably complicated score.
Finally, I don’t fully understand {@Janus}'s experiment with Insert Mode. I’m not yet familiar with Insert Mode. I know it’s one of those icons on the left, and when I hover over it I see Insert (Voice), so I assumed it has something to do with adding voices. This score I’m working on (originally composed in 1966) changes meter in almost every bar. And I’ve seen how I need to watch where I place the carat when I’m inserting notes, and that when I’m working with tuplets (I use a lot of 5:4x and 7:8y tuplets, sometimes others), I sometimes get some complicated and stuff. I’ll often use Force Duration when I’m sure of what I’ve written in the original. But every measure I usually have to massage things into place. I’m not beyond making mistakes or unreasonable choices, but I’m pleased to see after all these years how accurate I was in calculating these things in my student years. It’s entirely possible I’ve turned on Insert Mode somewhere that I shouldn’t have or didn’t where I should have.
It appears, however, that the immediate problem is fixed, and that I can go on. I wouldn’t have known how to solve this without the input of experts on this forum, for which I thank you very much. I’ll be sure to let you know if I have further questions or problems.
The manual explains insert mode, as well as the different modes. Basically, insert mode gives you a way to insert music and push remaining things to the right, rather than overwriting what’s there. As @Christian_R notes, you need to make sure to turn insert mode off when you’re done, because the effects could be quite unwanted if you keep working with it on.
Thanks for the advice on becoming more familiar with Insert Mode. I’ve now done that. I’d seen a tutorial on it a couple of weeks ago.
I was a bit terrified of it at that time because I had visions of inadvertently doing something wrong in the middle of a hugely complex score and not being able to back it out. I did see the first time through that there is a Stop Position, a potential life saver, but it wasn’t clear then to me how to set it. I can see that Input Mode can be useful, but I’ll have to discover what those uses are over time. At least now I know it’s there and how to get in and out of it.
Thanks again to all for your input.
