Would you be willing to post a brief tutorial about hiw to use the Chris Hein Hirns in Dorico? I have the full Kontakt 7, and as a former pro Bari Sax player, would love to be able to use them fir Jazz charts- especially with the NYC Dorico jazz templates. Thanks for the heads up!
There is actually nothing special to consider.
You just have to know how to make an expression map in Dorico.
But there are plenty of detailed tutorials that describe it much better than I could do here.
The library runs in Kontakt as well as in Kontakt player.
For example, this is what my trumpet looks like in contact:
I’ve only made the simplest articulations in the expression map. E.g. a doit. This is what it looks like for me:
This is a simple keyswitch D1.
In the keyboard in contact you can see the green keys. Each green key corresponds to an articulation.
This expression map is then assigned to the instrument in play mode:
But I wouldn’t expect too much. Wind instruments, and saxophones in particular, will never sound terribly realistic in Dorico. This can be improved a little by using a breath controller in Cubase, or taking the trouble to draw expression curves there.
What else is there to consider:
Forget the legato samples. They sound like my Casio keyboard from the 70s.
Tenor sax, Bari sax and trombones sound an octave too low in the library. To correct this, you have to enter ‘12’ in the expression map in the transpose field. With the bass trombone it is even 24.
I wouldn’t waste too much time trying to optimize it. It doesn’t get much better in Dorico with all the many possibilities for shaping the sound in this library. You can try this in a mockup in Cubase. The Section samples are sometimes quite useful for this purpose. In Dorico you can stuck to the sustain sample which is an F1 keyswitch in the natural expression in the expression map.
Oh, and if an eighth note on an offbeat doesn’t trigger a fall or doit articulation, it’s not the library’s fault, it’s Dorico’s fault. I’ll have to ask the team about that in another thread. Anyway, this can take or save a lot of time depending on whether you are aware of it or not. Dorico needs at least a quarter note for this it seems and if I haven’t done anything wrong.
Thanks. That will help. I use BBC Core and Synchron Prime VST instruments in Dorico, but I’m new to Kontakt and using it in Dorico-or anything else. I may have more luck (and fun) in Studio One or Reaper, it seems. In any event, I very much apprciate your help.
I see, if it’s just about KONTAKT then you just use it like any other VST Instrument.
You add KONTAKT as an VST Instrument, in KONTAKT you load the CH Instruments and you assign the MIDI channels in play mode in Dorico. That’s it… but you will need some expression maps as mentioned, at least because of the transpose. But that’s pretty easy.
Although no sound is perfect, I like the sound of the samples.
I also have VHorns Sax and Brass. They also sound very nice, but much too soft for a big band sound (just my opinion.), and Vintage Big Band has too few velocity layers…
I’ve come to the point where I realize that there’s no point in using Dorico as a DAW replacement. If we get the feature from the Dorico team to be able to send a keyswitch, for example, 20% before the end of a note, then I’ll be happy.
There is a flexibility in placing key switches (playing techniques).
Starting a new playing technique (is often ending the previous one):
Open the expression map > Open Playing Options Override > Activate Expression map switches before notes > enter a value between 0 and 400 . This change is for the whole expression map.
It is also possible to end an individual playing technique earlier, by selecting the playing technique and key in alt+shift+right+arrow key. By tapping on the arrow key you can enlarge now the area of the key switch one value per tap of the rythmic grid (left bottom of the Dorico window). With greater distances you can use the mouse (you move it from note to note), and the little changes you can do with the arrow key. I hope this helps.
Glad we’re back on the subject of the CCH…
Would you mind posting the expression maps? I’d be willing to try and help improving them, even though I am not an XPM wizard by a long shot.
As an aside, sometimes I still wonder why 3rd-party XPMs are not a huge market, along the lines of Streamdeck profiles and template packages…
And as a second aside, Chris Hein supplies XPMs for Cubase on his website, and I’ve never tried to actually import them into Dorico yet…
This. Pretty please?
Or even just a positive offset for the note-on keyswitch!
There’s still no way to automatically affect the timing of jazz articulations like falls, doits, etc, is there? A lot of libraries need these to be triggered during the note while Dorico only has on and off events. It would be great if there was a way to automate playback of these when the library requires it during the note.
OK, I understand. The only way now should be, I think, to place a extra playing technique during a note by using the caret, but that is not automated. I realize, that in the Emotional Violin for example it is possible to change a sample (for example from non legato to legato) with a key switch during the playing of a note. I think this is the same kind of technique.
Thank you! Yes, I’m aware of this.
But actually - see image -, if the doit sample is too long for an eight note, we would need to make this simple playing technique (doesn’t span more than one note) longer. If I set note length to 300, you get a longer note, but the key switch for the playing technique stays short. The doit sample stops playing after an eight note. That’s too short, and you won’t hear a doit.
That’s why we need the function that VST Instruments get information about time. That’s not the case at the moment and this can take quite a while… then we probably can expect the keyswitch 30% before end of note feature and more… Actually I’m quite sure we will get this because the software team is amazing!
You can change the length of the playing technique with the alt+shift+right arrow key trick, to make it long enough for the note (in steps of of 32th).
If I try to select just the doit symbol, I can’t do this without also selecting the note, and then with alt+shift+arrow you can just make the note longer, not the playing technique alone… at least I can’t… (?)
OK. Is it possible to make a special paying technique for this.
Open Edit Playing Techniques.
Make a new Playing Technique. Give it a special name (for example doit+, so not just doit, because there is a ornament with this name).
Click at Playback Techniques: on edit…
Make here a new Playback Technique, give it the same name (doit+).
Take care to make this new one blue and click also on the star at the left bottom of this window.
Now click on OK.
Check if in the window you see now behind Playback technique: “doit+”,
More at the top of the window you see: Type: . Choose here “glyph”.
Double click on the white window at the top of the window.
Delete in the white window doit+ with the bin right under the white window.
Choose in range (right of the white screen): Brass techniques.
Double click on the glyph you need. This glyph appears now in the white window.
Click on OK.
In the white screen you see the same glyphe now.
Click first on the star in the left bottom and then on OK.
Make in the expression map of the instrument you are using, a switch with the doit+ playing technique.
Open in your music on the right place the doit+ playing technique (shift+p), use the caret to place the doit sign on the place where it has to sound. After placing the doit sign, you can do the alt+shift+ arrow trick by selecting it.
In the engrave page you can edit the place of the sign.
It is not a very quick solution, I think, but hopefully one that works for you.
Seems to me you are a genius with solutions for almost everything!
I really appreciate you taking so much time to explain this solution in such detail.
That works great!
On the other hand, it’s really a shame having to recreate those things, just to get the playback working…
If all the existing jazz articulations had predefined, labelled Playback Techniques attached (like some DO have!), then we could make proper expression maps, ideally with keyswitches freely placeable between note-on and -off events…
Imagine all the cool stuff!
P.S.: Maybe we can ask John to do a Discover Dorico Session on the state of the art concerning these matters?
Just glad to hear that this works!!
Thanks again. I’ve been experimenting with Kontakt in Dorico- hopefully I’ll get the hang if it soon. You are correct, of course that no notation program can replace a DAW-yet, anyway. However, I am very pleased with the results I get in Dorico using Synchron Prime and the Prime playback template. I have Studio One 5 and Reaper, but am not comfortable using them to compose- a la film and media composers. Thanks again for your kind and generous help!
FWIW, I felt inspired to try and make a simple expression map for the CHH…
It’s late now, but I’ll post a sample tomorrow. Spoiler alert: The issue is not dealing with the XPM, but restraining the absolutely insane amount of micromanaging that this library requires, being an old-school hardcore VST… But it sounds nice so far!
Here it goes!
I couldn’t make any Ornaments work so far…
But the “Short” articulations work nicely, as well as the fp and cresc. markings.
But if you have a nice tune, it’s easy…
This is actually fun, and I might put some more work in, because the out of the box experience is horrifying…
Have a great Sunday!
Well, you were right about them being a PIA out if the box😏