I am constantly monitoring the S-6 Forum at Avid and I really wish there was a similar section here.
I have only had ONE opportunity to touch one and I’ve been hooked ever since. I’ve downloaded every tutorial video I could find and I’m constantly looking for any discussion with owners, to get any more REAL WORLD information, instead of just salesman pitches.
I can’t believe I’m the only one who would like this. So, if anybody else agrees, feel free to “+1” this thread.
We don’t need a separate section to answer Nuage questions.
I know we are certainly 3 or 4 on this forum.
The others (of who I know of) are rarely or never visiting the forums.
(Just like the majority of users …)
So feel free to ask anything you want.
And I am not a salesperson.
(BTW, our second Nuage system will be arriving within a few weeks. That is how happy I am with Nuage)
I spent four days on Fredos Nuage. It took me a day to get up to a decent speed and I had never used it before. Day two I pretty much stopped using the keyboard and mouse for most things.
Fader hardware could do with some improving though. A bit noisy when automating (our s5mc is much quieter). But they are supposed to be updated IIRC. Perhaps that has already happened.
I’m not quite ready to replace our s5mc yet, but when the need arises the Nuage will be a really strong candidate.
Next week will be the second time that Yamaha replaces the faders, and this time also the Talkback speaker.
Totaly free of charge.
Just because they are not happy with the current behaviour.
As Eric said, the faders can get a bit noisy, but that should be solved with this next update.
How do you mean? I assume you are talking about the Visibility Configuration Presets in the the Mixer & Project Windows, right?
I know those can go up much higher than 8. But I don’t NEED Nuage for that. I currently use those config presets with my limited MC Control layouts (limited in that I only have 4 faders). I select the config, say drums, from the DAW. Then I go to my layouts on the MC and swap between Drums 1 - 4, 5 - 8, and 9 - 12 to work on the associated tracks. Not very elegant. If I had an Artist Mix, my layout would address all 12 faders in one preset, which would be better. But then, following that procedure, I’ll end up with an 8.5’ console to accommodate the MC, a Transport, and 4 mix units for a 36 fader set up and I’d still have to match up the DAW with the controller.
The very attraction of the controller is that you push one button and the DAW & Controller snap together into the view you’d like to see. 48 presets is barely enough when you’re limited to 4 faders. But it’s a healthy amount with 16 (S3), You can go 48 faders on an S6 and they give you 96 presets. Clearly engineers are using lots of these! So, why is the Nuage controller so stingy with this function? I don’t get it.
With all due respect, I think you are falling into the trap of wanting a controller that fits your workflow exactly.
You will never find what you need, and even when you find it, you will be “stuck” with it after a while.
Each and every controller/console has it’s pro’s and con’s. Dealbreakers are personally.
You have to reverse your thinking in “how can I change my workflow so I can make best use of the controller”.
Even though Nuage is a very complete controller, and alomost everything can be done with it, I still use mouse and keyboard very often. Simply because it is still faster, more convenient, or because I am stuck in an old habit.
To answer your question. In addition to the 8 channel view presets, I also use the push buttins (for example to recall outputs , FX or VCA’s), and I use the visibility window a lot. You can scroll lightning fast through the folders and simply select what you want/need to see. There is also the “Track list” in the controller window, where you can see/select/mute/rec-arm/solo any track or folder. So, if you combine all these things, you got much more possibilities quickly select anything in your project.
Honestly, even now I sometimes can’t remember the configuration which is stored in preset 8. And I surely wouldn’t remeber what is stored under layout 16. And searching for the correct figuration in a named list seems a hughe waste of time to me.
Sigh, you’re right. I could point fingers to myself, I also get trapped in this thinking. So, thanks for reminding me.
I’d like to point out, not related to this thread in particular, that there are many things that could be improved in regards to workflow. It’s not about bending Nuendo to one’s highly personal style of working. There are objective things that could just be optimized. Reducing the amount of clicks it takes to do something. If it takes 3 clicks instead of 7 that even involves opening additional menus, 3 is clearly better.
I’ve seen you, Fredo, offering workarounds for quirky functions on these forums from time to time. That’s because you know Nuendo inside out and, over time, found all those workarounds. But if you and others have to find workarounds for something you do often, it might be worthwhile tackling this workaround and make the process streamlined altogether.
It’s saving time on functions Nuendo already has, but implemented sometimes in a hard-to-do-quickly fashion. And speaking of “remembering what’s on preset 8”, I think our workflows and tasks we do have gotten very complex with increasing possibilities in software, as well as the software itself that we use that has become very powerful and thus, complex too. It’s super hard remembering everything, heck I can’t even remember what I ate yesterday. Ease of use, discoverability, a clear logical structure in software goes a long way of enabling users to work more efficiently and also not get frustrated all too often.
Don’t confuse “finding a workaround for something that seems impossible to do (lack of feature)” with “finding a way to work faster and/or more conveniently”.
If you compare Nuendo with many other DAW’s, it’s excatly Nuendo which offers the possibility to do one thing in a dozen different ways. Whicle other DAW’s only have one way to achieve something. And that makes it hard, because it’s much easier to tell people how to do something, rather than to let thel figure it out themselves.
But ironically, it’s just because of that flexibility that we love Nuendo so much.
I don’t mind at all doing stuff that takes me 7 more clicks than someone else. I really don’t care.
But when I have to do something very ofthe, I question myself how to do it quicker.
That’s (and only then) when I start assigning KC’s; making Macro’s etc …
That way, I am 100% sure that I know where that shortcut is stored and how to use it.
I’ve known people who had a gazillion KC’s stored on their keyboard, and they needed a paper sheet to remember/reference them all.
Ease of use, discoverability, a clear logical structure in software goes a long way of enabling users to work more efficiently and also not get frustrated all too often.
That’s excatly what Nuage is. The layout isn’t as tiny/small as an S6, where you need reading glasses to find the right button. Nuage’s layout is much wider, much clearer and more straightforward.
It allows you do do many things much quicker than any other controller.
That’s why I love that thing so much.
And that’s why a second one will be installed within a couple of weeks.
It’s a hughe timesaver.
I think I don’t. And often, they go hand in hand. If you find a workaround to something that seems impossible, it comes with the benefit of making it faster as you don’t have to look elsewhere for solutions. Or the workaround saves you from manually doing in a long cumbersome process what the computer should do automatically. And then we’re back to: When people ask for a way of doing a specific operation that doesn’t exist, and even Fredo had to find a workaround, but it involves several steps, maybe it would be worthwhile integrating that process natively and make it easier to discover. Thus saving everyone’s time.
I think having something “one” way has its advantages as long as it’s the most efficient way. If it’s not efficient, I’d rather have flexibility of finding another way that suits me better. Yes.
Here, I don’t criticize Nuendo’s flexibility. I criticize incoherent, convoluted usability. A simple example that just now comes to mind is Track Archive. To import one: File > Import > Track Archive. Cool. But exporting? File > Export > Selected Tracks…? This could be anything from audio mixdown tor exporting single events, or stems. No mention of Track Archives. Of course this is a very basic and simple example to make my point.
Another one would be the “Advanced” menu item when you right click any event in the timeline. “Advanced” gives your brain no clue what might be within this menu as anything could be advanced. I think some stuff is advanced, you might think this is absolutely basic. And maybe even vice versa Advanced is different things to different people. This menu is a place of putting things you don’t know where else to put. It’s arbitrary and a sign of not having a solid enough structure.
The more menus and submenus there are, the more I have to remember where that function was … speaking of not being able to remember 8 presets… The more logical and sparse menu items are placed the better. Or does “Zoom” need to be in the context menu of an event?
These bits and pieces that seem convoluted to me can be seen in many places in Nuendo in my opinion.
This is where we have a deeply, deeply fundamental difference in how we feel about this.
As I said my comments were not related to the “how many presets does a controller have”. I envy you for having a Nuage, although it would be a huge overkill for my small projects. Maybe I’ll drop by some day to say hi and take a look.
Well now I’m REALLY CONFUSED. When I spoke about the horrible design for accomodating the KD/Mouse in Dec. 2014, you said
That is indeed a inconvenience. However, you actually hardly need the keyboard. > The only times you need the Keyboard is for typing words. As said many times before, I’m not a fan of controllers. And at first I had the same reaction as you, but after working more than a year with it, I couldn’t xare less.
Meanwhile EVERY AD that I’ve ever seen on ANY controller stresses 2 major points:
You won’t even NEED a KB/Mouse (well hardly)
You can customize it to work the way YOU WORK!
A lesser important, but often mentioned 3rd point is the proximity of the “ONE TO ONE” relationship enjoyed by users of real desks.
In every video demonstrating any controller, great pains are taken to stay as far away from the KB/Mouse as possible.
BUT in every candid photo of someone working with the controller they’re hands are usually on the mouse.
Now, I get that there are some things we are NOT going to be able to avoid using the KB/Mouse for with a DAW. But the entire benchmark of the pricing structure for these controllers (a goal worth tens of thousands of dollars!!!) seems to be based on how far away from the KB/Mouse we can get AND our ability to conform the device to our way of working , so that “IT BECOMES AN EXTENSION OF US” and thus, bridging that “extension” into the DAW and realizing the “dream aspiration” of "making technology invisible!"
yes, you are correct. You don’t need a mouse or keyboard with Nuage.
But still I do for some things, because I find it more convenient and/or faster.
Even better, the combined working with Nuage features/shortcuts and mouse is even faster than on the Nuage alone.
Yes, you can scroll down the visibility list and select the tracks you need/don’t need.
I prefer to do it with one mouse click.
You make it sound like “if you buy a Ferrari, you must use all it’s horsepower”.
Just because it is advertized for it’s speed, and because you paid for all of it.
I don’t give a rats *** about the fact that I don’t use the Nuage -and by extention Nuendo- to it’s full capacities.
I don’t care for one second if I don’t use half of the money I put down for our Nuage.
We get the job done. 3 times as fast as with a keyboard and mouse.
Someday, we might get up to 4 times as fast. But that is not our goal. It will come with time …
I like the luxury, convenience, overview, layout and speed that Nuage offers.
It makes my work better, and faster.
And I see no alternative that can offer me all that, for that price.
I have only seen (demo-ed) the following controllers once per controller, but my observations were…
S6, lots of flexibility for mixing. Absolutely no (or very limited) facilities for Editing or composing.
a bit flimsy in the construction quality department.
Tango, I like the tango for it’s flexibility, in setting up pages of favorite functions, etc.
I thought the faders were a bit cheap, and the scroll wheel too small.
Nuage, Liked it, I remember wishing the buttons I would use the most (above the faders) were at the top instead of lower down. Best construction of the 3 mentioned so far.
Avid MC Controller. Since I work on a System-5 Music console (which is AWESOME !!!)
I could understand this one the fastest, but coming from a big boy console, I felt it had too many drawbacks for my style of workflow, the Tango at the time would have met my needs better.
The system-5 MC with several fader sections would be a different story, it’s like having my system-5 music console except that it is controlling Nuendo directly instead of Running Audio through processing (console).
As Fredo said, you will NEVER find the perfect controller. Everybody has different styles/needs, and you can NEVER please everyone, much less try to do in in a small foot print needed by most smaller facilities.
Find what is closest to your needs and then learn to stretch the boundaries of how you work.
Why don’t you just get a couple of artist mix to compliment your transport and mc control ?
I fell like most of your workflow worries are due to the lack of faders and knobs that you can access at once.
Less scrolling, less layouts etc.
Otherwise, yes of course, go Nuage (!!!) but if money is tight, expand what you already own.
Just my two cents.