its actually quite amazing how vulnerable the Cubase source code is to 3rd party VST plugins. Anybody remember the Native Instruments Reflektor bug that rendered the computer keyboard more and more useless over time as a project was open? Eventually hitting anything on the computer keyboard would do nothing inside Cubase. I thought my keyboard or USB was at fault. I was close to buying new USB ports and a new computer keyboard haha. it turns out Reflektor was effing up key commands in Cubase. Insane how this can happen from a VSTi! NI fixed the issue but it blows my mind that this can even happen in the first place
I get your point but a DAW can never really match up to the quality of dedicated plugin built specifically over years for 1 specific task imo. It would be difficult for Steinberg to make a compressor as good as Elysia’s for example
For me Cubase 8 Pro runs pretty stable. For standard things i use the build in plugins and what can not be covered by Cubase or is not well enough is been replaced by third party plugins. I use SSD4, Superior/Ezdrummer2 without any hickups. All the NI stuff from Ultimate 9 also runs rock stable. I have the freeplugs from Meldaproductions the Limiter6 and Molot from vlagd the TSE 808 Tubescreamer and the Emmisary from Ignite amps wich run rock stable as well. And the Essential Pack from Toneboosters and the TB Barricade and Loudnessmetering. All fine
The only plugin so far that really causes me trouble (unfortunately my most used one) Is BFD3. Whenever i use it there is a huge chance of Cubase crashing. Especially when open and closing the plugin window or switching screensets. I also found that Cubase tends to chrash when shutting it down while there is an active project. When i first close the project and than shut down Cubase its fine.
It would be interesting to hear what Steinberg uses for there test System. What hardware (mainboard, processor, graphics and such and what OS) is the most stable for Cubase for them.
Cubase is stable for me on a Mac. Fortunately, I haven’t had any issues with 3rd party plugins. Crashes only occur when I do too much at once (accidentally).
It’d be great if Steinberg implemented an auto-save function during a crash like Logic has.
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Logic and Ableton have had -plenty- of stability complaints at various points.
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All DAWs experience feature bloat. If Ableton has less of that, it’s because their target audience is much more focused. IOW: Cubase tries to be all things to all people. That’s challenging for -any- product.
Look, as I wrote NO ONE complains more about Cubase than me. I write for a living. MIDI orchestrations. Notation. I can’t STAND all the focus on ‘MixConsole’ and audio over recent years at the expense of longstanding issues. And I can’t stand all the doodads like ‘Chord whatever’. And I need another softsynth or guitar ampsim like I need a hole in the head. And Score has been barely usable for -years-. And VST Expression is basically in a coma. And don’t get me started on all the UI weirdness. Those issues -matter- to me.
Guess what? I AM THE MINORITY! Apparently? All those doodads that you (and I) decry? The vast majority of people seem to LIKE THEM! Otherwise, I -assume- that SB wouldn’t keep screwing with 'em. IOW: they’re doing what vox populi desire. I assume SB aren’t stupidly marketing the wrong things. People seem to -want- ‘Chord Tracks’. Why, I have no idea, but they must.
VERY FEW PEOPLE ACTUALLY COMPLAIN ANYMORE. Very few. It’s the same old farts. I can write 1,000 angry posts about ‘Chord Tracks’, but who gives a poopies? The average Cubase user seems to eat that stuff up with a soup ladle.
What can ya do?
My feeling is that there is a ‘silent majority’ of Cubase users who feel as you and I do, but never complain. They hate whiners (like me) and have better things to do with their time. So SB rarely hears the big picture.
The only advice I can give -anyone- here if you don’t like Cubase: Write them a letter. Not a forum post. A real letter. My guess is that almost NO ONE ever does. So they’ll just keep making more and more ‘Groove Whatevers’ and -not- address the core issues that a lot of us care about.
—JC
Could you elaborate on “only internal plugs offer real mediabay integration?” Perhaps explain the difference?
I disagree. I would much rather have a DAW that focuses on the functionality _and hosting i_ssues of a DAW instead of adding things that 3rd parties usually do better…sometimes way better. The main reason is that I believe core DAW functions have been sacrificed for 3rd party stuff. Any developer only has a limited amount of resources. Core DAW functions appeal to mostly experienced users who value workflow and solid working functions.
3rd party stuff appeals to new users who like the “all-in-one-box” concept. And as Suntower said, a feature-rich Cubase definitely attempts to be all things to all people. IMO as the DAW market grows that becomes increasingly difficult to achieve.
Which is more important?
LoopMash, GuitarAmp, improving Magnetto, all the Steinberg VSTI’s etc?
Or…
mix undo, proper windows management, a way to focus the 3 mix consoles, (excluding ctr+tab which only alternates among the open windows) improved rendering, key commands for missing functions, and dozens of other “boring” issues that someone new to Cubase probably wouldn’t miss?
For myself it’s the latter. And this is the stuff that has been sacrificed for years. Maybe with C8 there is a glimmer of hope in changing the course?
If you are a new DAW user, ready to make jammin beats in your bedroom, which do you value most? LoopMash or mix undo? You can’t have both because your resources are limited. Has the new user even heard about UAD, Waves, NI, Lexicon etc?
Also living with built-in Steinberg tools your DAW sort of becomes a semi-closed environment. Sure, it works with NI or UAD, but not as integrated as internal Steinberg tools. That opens the door to inconsistency. There is nothing wrong with this, but I wish they would focus on making the DAW rock solid meaning the best host for 3rd parties. VST2 was wonderful, but VST3 doesn’t seem to be embraced very well industry wide and it’s been out for years. Wouldn’t it be nice if some day Cubase was a solid DAW host that could integrate a UAD or Waves SSL mix console instead of the Steinberg created mix console? Or maybe even work with SSL themselves! This is possible, but only from a developer who focuses on their core DAW functions and is willing to partner with 3rd parties. This might not be the most popular DAW, but IMO definitely one professional users would love. I know I would pay a lot more for a DAW like this.
We are the minority, but IMO it’s a growing minority. Some people get all giddy over every new feature. I believe new features for the sake of features are selling DAWs now. Prosumers pay money the day the upgrade is released and live with increasing unresolved issues. But honestly, and no disrespect, I don’t think these users are the every-day professional users wishing for mix undo and have deadlines and production quotas.
You can lead an API to water, but ya can’t make it -drink-.
In the old days, SB came up with a spec (like VST) and 3rd parties went for it.
The problem for SB for the past 10 years is this: They continued to crank out new APIS: VST3, Halion, Expression, Remote Control, etc. and…
NO ONE WENT FOR IT.
…Waves, UA, NI, et al. were given no incentive to go with the program. So they didn’t. And at this point, they never will. Their money is in getting you into THEIR semi-closed system. Hell, even Alexey was dissing VST3. Garritan wanted to do a Halion string library and got so frustrated he quit. Look at Wavelab… why the ‘f’ doesn’t -that- even integrate well with Cubase?
Developers have told me again and again that SB simply did not SELL THEM on their ideas.
The horse has left the barn.
We’re stuck with VST2… which has limited integration and limited crash protection. And none of their other initiatives have traction.
The only thing I can reasonably hope for is to get an easier UI.
Seems to me CuBase is more of a creator’s platform, where Nuendo is more geared to be the ‘engineer’s’ DAW. CuBase is good enough to be inspirational, and sketch out ideas and produce demo quality goods. To really put the ‘polish’ on something…well…they do have a higher end product for producers and engineers.
What attracts me to CuBase are the powerhouse creative and organizational abilities it offers. There’s simply nothing else on the market I know of that offers as much in a box for the price. It’s nice not to have to install 30 different things from 10 different parties to get some serious work done. In my case, CuBase has been a solid and smooth performer.
Even with the basic SE level of Halion…using GM soundsets…well…it’s a quite flexible and good sounding little setup for a rather low cash layout. After wasting a bunch of money on higher end sample libraries…I find myself more and more going back to the bread and butter sounds that came with SE for ‘song writer’ and ‘general composer’ mode. Why? They just ‘fit in a mix’ better for someone that’s not ready to spend ‘hours’ learning how to find space in a mix for every part and get it all locked in. In short…some of the stuff that makes ‘fancy VSTi libraries so fancy’…actually makes them sound ‘terrible’ when you actually start trying to use them in real mixes and projects.
Things I use the most as a composer, a mixing Engineer could probably care less about.
I.E. My most used feature of anything in CuBase are the MIDI logic editors. Yep…something nothing else does as well and as easily…except for maybe Logic…an Apple only option. If it weren’t for CuBase…I’d have to go back to my old Atari ST to get anything ‘MIDI’ done as precisely and easily.
Next in line would be the real time mapping and transformation abilities. I don’t have to wait 6 months for stupid controller and/or instrument profiles that never come out! CuBase gives me all the tools to make my own…the way “I” want them made. Other DAWs? Can’t even use controller X without something like Bome, and even then 2/3rds of it might not work. Other DAWs…can’t use my old pedals if they’ve got the polarity the wrong way, etc. Other DAWs…keep it top secret how to build up an instrument profile…offer little to no sysex support, and so forth. With CuBase? No problem…I can do anything I want to the MIDI stream in real time.
Again, the MIDI power is king here.
CuBase MIDI editors are second to none in my opinion. While there are plenty of ‘similar’ looking/acting things on the market…CuBase is the only one I can look at all day without it burning my eyes out. Since Version 8, it’s also the ONLY thing I’ve found so far that I can spread across 3 or more screens. I did find some products that kind of let me use 2 screens…but good lord…the fonts were so tiny with no way to change them, the color schemes were atrocious, and well…my old monochrome Atari screen was easier to look at! For my old eyes…while it’s not ‘perfect’…CuBase is the easiest to stare at all day in a desktop user workstation. I see a few that may be a little easier to see than CuBase if you only use one screen…but they just can’t touch CuBase yet on the MIDI end.
At level two for me are the mixing and automation capabilities. These again are quite powerful in CuBase. We get dozens of ‘options’ on how to best go about mixing projects. My ears aren’t as good as a pro audio guy when it comes to ‘this stage’ of a project anyway. I’ll get it in the ball park and pass it on to a ‘pro’ to lock it in and master it.
Finally, if one adds Halion 5, it’s a ‘sound scaping’ dream come true. There’s nothing else out there that makes it so easy to work with surround sound samples. Grab stuff right in the DAW…as many channels/tracks as you like…slice it up…edit it…drag it right into H5 for triggering and further manipulation. All of my presets, loops, songs, libraries, samples…well, it’s all in one place and I can drag and drop it seamlessly between the DAW, VSTi, etc. I also get a nice uniform set of effects across anything Steinberg…so I’m not having to reinvent the wheel every time I want to add another track or section. Instant render in CuBase 8 makes all this even more amazing…resample VSTi takes to surround sound samples via instant render…pull it into H5, and go to town…
Rather than going through boxes of junk that someone else made…one can just create his own on the fly…often in far less time than it takes to ‘install and audition’ the 50 million third party options.
Scoring is getting much better in CuBase! I can finally ‘interpret’ a good 70% or more of an imported score in a major DAW. I’m now to the point where I don’t have to mess with those horrible engraving packages until I actually get ready to fine tune and ‘print’ a top quality score. Today’s CuBase eliminates about 30 steps from my workflow of say, five years ago (where I had to bounce around between at least 5 different applications to get a job done).
If I were a live recording/mixing engineer…then I would totally agree that much of what’s in CuBase would be of little interest. I’d be looking for the best Mixing and audio routing abilities, displays I could easily see from more than 5 feet away, more robust VST effects, the best sample editing, the ability to ‘import/export’ a wide variety of plugins and project types/formats, rock solid stability, etc.
I’ve never had a chance to try Nuendo on top notch hardware…but I was under the impression that it was far more attuned to be a ‘producer/engineer’ DAW…while CuBase is aimed more at the lone Composer and Creator who’s parked behind more moderate ‘consumer budgeted’ hardware. Nuendo focuses more on stability, broader support for ‘high end’ hardware components, and much higher quality ‘audio’.
For myself, the difference in features between the two doesn’t justify the price difference at all. The issues I mentioned prior in this post exist in Nuendo too. Core functions and workflow in both need huge attention. Many “issues” are the same. To really “polish” something beyond what can be done in any DAW you need a ME with experience. Whether that ME chooses Wavelab, Nuendo, Sadie, PT, or even Cubase is personal choice. In a nutshell, from my perspective Cubase and Nunedo are too much the same. If Nuendo had mix undo, better focusing, updated KC’s and especially improved USA technical support, I would jump in a heartbeat…and pay a professional price too!
Cubase is definitely a production environment and very inspiring. Thats why in some comparisons such as Cubase vs. PT to be honest, you aren’t even comparing apples to apples. PT…record, mix, and send the file to the next studio for more of the same. Cubase…a all in one environment with all kinds of creative and production features not found in PT.
It’s true. Although PT has caught up on MIDI a lot. Cubase is the best balance for a guy like me who writes midi orchestrations and does -some- audio.
The frustrating thing for me is that the last 7-8 years have been almost ALL about ‘Audio’ and then futzing with the UI—and making things WORSE in many cases. So lots of the features that -were- ‘cutting edge’ now seem pretty long in the tooth.
IOW: My workflow hasn’t -really- improved that much since SX3 or 4. And I’ve started getting resentful that the repetitive tasks I do every day haven’t been improved much at all. There’s all this new stuff which I understand ‘mixers’ want to have, but I literally waste -hours- every week with the same clunky workflow. All the eye candy does me little good—in fact a lot of the UI junk gets in my way! So I wish they’d throw people like -ME- a bone once in a while.
Even something trivial like a Lock Locators option would (literally) save me hours every year (and make me feel like they care about old timers.)
The lack of Lock Locators must rank as one of highest perpetual annoyances in Cubase. The number of times I’ve accidentally moved them when I’m trying to click on the time line in the project window or an editor and then have to reset them. Each time I mutter a silent prayer to the code gods that this might be modified to prevent accidental changes.
Adding a lock option wouldn’t affect people who don’t want them locked so it isn’t a losing situation but it would add a few days to the lives of those who do want them locked.
Regarding midi, here is my inspiration for workflow, and how it should be.
Of course, no direct comparison can be made since Cubase is so much more powerful, but I honestly believe a good majority of users have lost track of what kind of workflow can be achieved. And newer users simply don’t have any reference except the current Logic, Ableton, and…yawn.
Here is the reference.
This is why I think it is important to keep the focus on workflow and core functions. So much of what Cubase currently has can be streamlined and improved. You don’t need more!
BIG +1 here! In Logic, even if it crashed, it would auto-save right before it crashed so you would literarily loose no work. I must admit I’m not the biggest saver, and I sometimes do things too quickly and Cubase freaks out and crashes (maybe once every other day or so) but when it does I often loose 30min to an hours worth of work. I use to have autosave on, but this seemed to cause more crashes as often it would try autosaving when I was in the middle of doing something and it would crash. Turning off autosave as oddly made my system seemingly more stable.
Guess I was spoiled by logic in this respect, as I literarily never lost any work from a crash. Unfortunately I can’t say the same about Cubase.