# key change with double barline? **URL:** \ **Category:** Dorico\ **Created:** [January 31, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132 "2018-01-31T13:02:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![k\_b](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/k_b/32/117834_2.png) [@k\_b](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/k_b)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/1 "2018-01-31T13:02:29Z")
Hello, I am having a discussion with a colleague wether a key change should be preceded with a double barline yes or no. In E. Gould she says double barline only when also a new musical section (otherwise single barline). In Ted Ross from 1978 it shows the double barline as standard. What would be the best for notating 18th century music? Example Ted Ross: ![](https://www.steinberg.net/forums/download/file.php?id=27355) Example Elaine Gould: ![](https://www.steinberg.net/forums/download/file.php?id=27359) ![key changes E. Gould.jpg](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/3X/0/a/0adc8ffc5c71b2451b59b148b23e380e39ee1df7.jpeg) ![key changes.jpg](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/3X/2/8/28012470b4d68dc87ef0d0eaebc874f00e89eb55.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![steveparker](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/steveparker/32/115546_2.png) [@steveparker](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/steveparker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/2 "2018-01-31T16:41:48Z")
If I’m doing a part replacement I copy what is already in the score etc. Otherwise, Gould. ---
**Author:** ![LSalgueiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c67d28/32.png) [@LSalgueiro](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/LSalgueiro)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/3 "2018-01-31T16:46:48Z")
The adverb in the Ross is key: “traditionally”. It’s a convention that gradually fell out of use. However, if you’re doing 18th century music, it’s very much an editorial decision to modernize that aspect of the notation or not. I would keep it. Confront with the manuscript and contemporary sources of the material you’re working with. ---
**Author:** ![k\_b](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/k_b/32/117834_2.png) [@k\_b](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/k_b)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/4 "2018-01-31T17:37:55Z")
If you have a look at the manuscript, here: ![](https://www.steinberg.net/forums/download/file.php?id=27369) This is, how Dorico handles it: ![](https://www.steinberg.net/forums/download/file.php?id=27370) ![key change dorico.png](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/3X/7/0/7072db624d55b87a4763a005b701acfbcb29d55a.png) ![key change hs.png](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/3X/c/5/c514312ce580ba4fa3626f07d4e99e922bb65fd2.png) ---
**Author:** ![steveparker](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/steveparker/32/115546_2.png) [@steveparker](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/steveparker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/5 "2018-01-31T18:19:46Z")
I don’t like the double double-barline either… There was a thread in 2016 about this. ---
**Author:** ![Estigy](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/estigy/32/141376_2.png) [@Estigy](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Estigy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/6 "2018-01-31T18:44:12Z")
If you want to change the automatically created double barline at a key change, select the double barline and either click on the “normal barline” button or enter “|” in the + **popover.** ---
**Author:** ![steveparker](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/steveparker/32/115546_2.png) [@steveparker](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/steveparker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/7 "2018-01-31T19:09:41Z")
My problem is with the additional barline created at the confluence of repeat and key change. ---
**Author:** ![k\_b](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/k_b/32/117834_2.png) [@k\_b](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/k_b)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/8 "2018-01-31T19:12:30Z")
Estigy, your suggestion does not work 🙂 Because I can not select the double barline on its own. The start repeat barline will be highlighted, too. So if I then change the barline to a normal barline, the repeat barline will be lost ☹ ![](https://www.steinberg.net/forums/download/file.php?id=27372) [key change example.dorico.zip](https://forums.steinberg.net/uploads/short-url/ty9GGnXiRZPiIgXKoigtf2MfFgy.zip) (667 KB) ![selecting the double barline.png](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/3X/5/5/553b73d2d2ae16c336b3e2bb858054cb9cb6d0c7.png) ---
**Author:** ![Estigy](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/estigy/32/141376_2.png) [@Estigy](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Estigy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/9 "2018-01-31T19:16:34Z")
I have to admit, I did not try it in combination with a repeat bar 😉 ---
**Author:** ![k\_b](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/k_b/32/117834_2.png) [@k\_b](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/k_b)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/10 "2018-01-31T19:17:23Z")
… never mind (-; ---
**Author:** ![steveparker](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/steveparker/32/115546_2.png) [@steveparker](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/steveparker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/11 "2018-01-31T21:48:39Z")
I’d like the barline then the key then the repeat dots (for most things…) ---
**Author:** ![Knut\_Nergaard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@Knut\_Nergaard](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Knut_Nergaard)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/12 "2018-02-01T02:16:41Z")
> [@LSalgueiro](#): > > The adverb in the Ross is key: “traditionally”. It’s a convention that gradually fell out of use. It’s not out of use yet, although there’s certainly been a shift towards single barline before key changes in recent decades. Personally, I prefer the double barline as a visual aid before key changes in classical music which otherwise isn’t sprecifically sectionalised. Otherwise, in the relatively rare event of a key change in the middle of a specified section, I use single barlines to avoid any confusion with regard to the form. ---
**Author:** ![steveparker](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/steveparker/32/115546_2.png) [@steveparker](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/steveparker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/13 "2018-02-01T09:58:19Z")
In theatre stuff and my own writing, I’ve used thick barlines for structural cues for a long time. This leaves doubles for barlines with dialogue between etc. Thick double barlines are a useful ‘watch out!’ marker. ---
**Author:** ![Luca\_Toldo](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/luca_toldo/32/219534_2.png) [@Luca\_Toldo](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Luca_Toldo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/14 "2026-01-26T21:18:03Z")
i have exactely the same issue, using Dorico 5 Elements, could it be solved ? ---
**Author:** ![Luca\_Toldo](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/luca_toldo/32/219534_2.png) [@Luca\_Toldo](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Luca_Toldo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/15 "2026-01-26T21:18:44Z")
I have the exactely same issue, using Dorico 5 Elements. How did you solved it ? ---
**Author:** ![asherber](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/asherber/32/277014_2.png) [@asherber](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/asherber)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/key-change-with-double-barline/104132/16 "2026-01-26T21:29:41Z")
This is an old thread. In Dorico Pro, you can now set your preference in Engraving Options \> Barlines \> Key Signatures, but you can’t access Engraving Options in Elements.