We’re not actively looking into this at the moment, I’m afraid. It’s not ideal timing since we’re all still working from home and thus only have whatever equipment we have to hand. Neither Paul nor I have been able to reproduce any issues with latency on our own systems, and it’s not a general problem affecting our users at large. So there must be some additional factor or factors on your system that accounts for this. Unfortunately at the moment I don’t have any great ideas about how to investigate further. I understand that this would be enough to put you off using Dorico.
Thought I’d add some recent observations because I’ve been experiencing this “play a note” latency issue as well.
Dorico 3.5.11, Windows 10
I started up Dorico, new project, added piano.
Using either computer keyboard, or midi usb keyboard, when pressing a key, the resulting sound is delayed into my ears with my expectations of when the key is pressed.
I put it into midi record mode just to see if I could give some relevant amount of latency experienced (as compared to the metronome) and I would say at quarter note=120, the delay is approximately 1/16th note. (note as long as I can stay in sync with the metronome, it correctly inputs the notes in the right place, it’s just the audio to my ear that is perceiving my key press to be falling behind the metronome)
When I start up any vst isolated, (not within Dorico) there is no perceived latency, so I THOUGHT I could eliminate my hw input and audio output as being the source of the issue. Not true.
Current Dorico settings: ASIO4ALL v2.14, Focusrite USB Audio, In/Out: 8x44.1kHz 24bit, Latency In 32 samples, out 32 samples, Kernel Buffers 2, ASIO Buffer Size = 512 Samples (Played with these settings as well where I could but didn’t notice any change)
When ASIO4ALL is set to use output to the Focusrite, the latency shows up. However, when I set it to use the standard windows HD Audio Device there is no perceived latency (all other settings identical)
So for now, when latency is an issue, I’ll switch to the windows HD audio device - although there must be some setting somewhere that is causing the perceived latency…perhaps I’ll play with that some more to see what else I can find. Maybe the Focusrite is set up to add some latency itself, but I don’t normally perceive it when working in Dorico because I don’t always have syncronous keypress/audio out expectations.
May not be related but using Dorico with BBCSO was unacceptably slow (switching instruments, random pauses, etc), so I documented on this forum a way to use a DAW (Logic) as the backend host, on the same machine, with Dorico just sending MIDI over to that app. Cleared up everything now that Dorico isn’t burdened with the instruments, plus since the DAW runs continuously it’s always available (and doesn’t crash after a computer sleep!) You might try that and see if it helps.
If you use ASIO4All or the Generic Low Latency ASIO device then you will get higher latency, because these are not ‘true’ ASIO interfaces. They are adaptors that present an ASIO interface to Dorico, but can be used with the regular Windows Audio driver. You have an ASIO sound card so you need to use the Focusrite ASIO driver, and then you should get much lower latency.
Hi @PaulWalmsley, Hi @DanielatSteinberg,
I have now completely set up my PC and still have the latency problem with Dorico SE 3.5. As I said, that keeps me from buying Dorico Elements or Dorico Pro.
As already said, I don’t have these latency problems with Cubase 7.5. Now I’m considering updating to Cubase 11. What possibilities does Cubase 11 offer me in terms of notation? Is the notation now better than with Cubase 7.5? Because in Cubase 7.5 I find the notation function complicated and unwieldy. Has the notation function in Cubase 11 improved compared to Cubase 7.5 and is now as comfortable, simple and extensive as in Dorico and what about the playback of the notation with VSTs in Cubase 11 (Expression Maps). Can Cubase 11 be an alternative to Dorico Elements / Dorico Pro for me or is the notation function in Cubase rather underdeveloped?
Or can you recommend another solution or alternative? Because, as I said, I’m looking for a notation program with midi functions and good uses for my VSTs (VSL, EastWest)?
You didn’t ask me, and I hesitate to recommend a direct competitor, but Studio One is a great DAW, and interfaces natively with Notion. It’s a much more rudimentary notation program than Dorico, but it might be sufficient for your needs.
Cubase 11 has added SMUFL fonts and some other additions to Score. You can find a video on that
but they do not turn Cubase 11 into Dorico by any means.
Johannes, if you have specific questions about scoring in Cubase, there is a dedicated form for that topic here.
There have been a number of incremental improvements in the Score editor in Cubase since version 7.5, though the fundamental approach and broad strokes of its capabilities are much the same in Cubase 11 as they were in that version.
Hey Dorico Team and Dorico Experts,
since end 2020 I am proud owner of Dorico 3.5. If I simply use Dorico as a notation software, I’m so far satisfied. Unfortunately, I am still dissatisfied with the use of VSTs within Dorico.
I mainly use my VSTs (VSL Pianos, East West Strings) for two purposes:
1st case - No recording intention - I only play the piano (with VST) as if I were practicing my pieces on a real piano. In Cubase in particular, I also like to play around with other VST instruments such as strings and brass without recording anything, in order to collect ideas or try things out. If I want to do these things, I either use the stand-alone application or do it in Cubase 11, which works well and without annoying latency.
2nd case - Intention to record - 1. Step (equal to 1st case): I improvise around / try different things, play around with the VST without any recording. 2. Step: Then I have a few good ideas and then I want to record them (step input, midi recording for a few bars, step-by-step midi note scoring). For doing Step 1 and Step 2 I use either Cubase 11 or Dorico 3.5. With Cubase 11 there is no problem, because there is no annoying latency, when doing Step 1 (no recording, just playing around, improvising). But in Dorico there is an annoying latency problem when I want to do just Step 1.
That means: I am very annoyed and unsatisfied by the latency when I do no recording, just playing around, doing Step 1.
I don’t have this problem either within the VSL Synchron Player Standalone or in Cubase 11 using as a VST host (both with VSL VSTs or EastWest VSTs).
Only in Dorico (when I just play around or improvise with e.g. VSL Synchron piano without any recording) I have this clearly noticeable annoying latency.
As an emergency solution I have to use VSL Synchron Player Standalone and Dorico parallel opened, when I want to do both improvising without recording and scoring with recording. But this is stupid, because then my audio interface is not available in Dorico. In addition, this emergency solution also has a higher system resource requirement and then there are dropouts from time to time. But at least I don’t have any annoying latency with this solution.
In other words: I would like to be able to play and improvise in Dorico with my VSTs without disturbing latency so that I don’t have to open either Cubase 11 or standalone applications in parallel. I want to do both things in Dorico: just playing around without annoying latency and recording without annoying latency. You can do that in Cubase, so why not in Dorico?
I would still find it important if a solution can be found for this (possibly also through updates or in a new Dorico version). I just want to be able to improvise like with Cubase without additional latency and have fun with my VSTs.
Best regards
Johannes915
Thanks for coming back to us, Johannes915. I really can’t think of any reason why you should experience any greater latency when playing live in Dorico than in Cubase, if you have the same audio hardware, the same buffer size settings, and so on. The only thing that I can imagine that might make a difference is that ASIO Guard is always switched on in Dorico’s audio engine, but it might be switched off in Cubase, perhaps?
Hi Daniel,
thank you for your answer and welcome.
I have checked my current settings in Cubase 11 and I took some pictures of it. You can find the pictures in the attachment. The latency in Dorico is still noticeably higher than in Cubase. In the second step I will upload some pictures of my Dorico settings for you.
Right, the buffer size chosen is the same in both Cubase and Dorico, it would seem. I don’t know whether my guess that ASIO-Guard might play a part in the difference is right or not – the internals of the audio engine are way beyond my knowledge. But I will ask my colleague Ulf if he has any further ideas.
Hi Johannes, the MIDI code path is definitely longer in Dorico than in Cubase, but not that much longer that you should notice. How much latency do you have? Not exactly, just guess. 1/10th of a second, 1/2 a second,…?