Layout inheritance- puzzling- what am I missing?

Hi, I’m William, and I’m recovering from a Finale dependency. … (hi, William)…

Actually really digging much about Dorico, but much to learn, of course. One thing I just don’t understand is the Default Templates/ layout stuff.

I have my Default Templates; First and Others pages for both Score and Parts setup the way i want them and saved in a document Template.

Open a new Document based on the Template- I add a Player, enter the music, often the part layout needs tweaking, the text frames are messed up, so I fix them in the Default Template.

If I then add another Player, when I look at it’s Layout, it’s all jacked- why does it not use the Default Template for Parts, and is there not a way to copy the layout from one part to another?

Help, thanks

Scores and Parts use different sets of page templates. That may be what you’re seeing here.

Thanks for the reply. I understand the difference. When the new part is created, it’s using the Default Templates for Parts, but is vastly different than any of the other parts, or the Default Templates in the Document. Opening the Default Layout when in one part shows a different Template than when in a different part… ???

An easy fix would be if i could simply copy the Layout from one part to another- possible?

Can you upload an example document showing the problem?

You’re sure there are no page overrides?

Well- I realize I’m not being clear. It’s when I create a new PLAYER, the layout for the new player doesn’t seem to use the Default part Layout.

In the attached, I just added a Clarinet PLAYER. The page Templates are weirdly unique.
Example for part formatting issue.dorico (741.1 KB)

I do now see I can use Propagate Part Format in the right pane to do what I need, I guess I just don’t understand how the “Default” Templates work.

Just to be clear: we are talking about Page Templates rather than Document Templates here?

Yeah I think the terminology is a little bit overlapping… In my document template that I use for lead sheets I created page templates for both Score and Parts. The uploaded document is based on that template of mine. I’m assuming that when new players are added they would automatically use the default page templates for Parts but if you go into engrave mode on that clarinet part you’ll see that the headers and footers are all wonky. The concert lead sheet part uses the default template.

That’s funny… :grin:

Thanks for the snicker

The problem seems to be that your title text frame is tiny on a new Layout, for some reason.
This is caused by “Constraints”. If you change the page size, Dorico needs to know what to do with text frames. Do they expand/contract with the height/width, or stay the same size.

When you edit your layout, you’ll see these padlocks in the left-hand panel.

I’ve “unlocked” the bottom of your title text frame. This means that when the page size changes, the text frame “sticks” to the margins on the top, left and right; but maintains its current height.

You had all four padlocks locked, so presumably you changed the page size smaller, and Dorico squished all four sides of the frame proportionately.

OK… That helps, I don’t think I changed the page size, and that’s not the only difference… The footers are weird

And should I be able to “unlock” all four sides of any text frame?…

If I am working on a document, and I make changes to the default part template, shouldn’t any new parts created use the settings that I just saved when editing the default page template?

Generally, if you want something to be always at the top, then keep the top locked. If you want it always at the bottom, then lock the bottom.

If you keep everything unlocked, and then change the page size, then they won’t move at all with respect to the new page. (So they’ll either be outside the page for a smaller page; or halfway down the page for a larger one.)

OK thank you again for all this help… For my text frames, for example the title frame, if I unlock the bottom I can’t unlock the top, if I unlock the left I can’t unlock the right.

And I have not changed any page sizes… And certainly not since I created that clarinet part. Clarinet part was brand new therefore I would assume it would use the default templates in which case it shouldn’t matter what is locked or unlocked… Maybe there’s something corrupted in my default document, as I think it’s based on a Converted finale document…. I suggest you maybe try adding part and see what the layout looks like

The manual might assist you here…
Frame constraints • Dorico Pro Help • Reader • Steinberg

In particular: “Note: Frames must have at least one locked constraint from each pair of top/bottom and right/left, such as top and right.”

Yes… That makes sense- when you mentioned “if you leave everything unlocked” I thought maybe I was missing something.

And, again thank you for Helping… What can I do to make sure that new parts generated will follow the default page templates?

Ah sorry - I was assuming that was possible.