Little bug - Trill/grace note playback

Haven’t tried this for a while so don’t know how long it’s been in the program, but it is not possible to edit the placement (in the key editor) of grace notes when they occur right after a trill.

No, it is not possible directly . But you can change the speed of the trill itself in Playback Options (1) and the grace notes speed will adapt to that. This maintains the coherence, because it is normal praxis for the grace notes to be played at the same velocity of the trill. (but see EDIT below*)
If you want them slower (or faster), it is better in any case to notate them as main notes, as desired (2), in my opinion:

  • EDIT: I just discovered though, that if you activate Accelerating from normal to fast speed, and put a low value for the fast speed, the grace notes will be played slow :slight_smile: You can experiment: incredible how this is all well thought by the Developers!!!

Yes, I use that system often, but I’m still not able to edit the grace notes, and also they don’t play correctly… I think it has to do with the tuplet they are playing into. The only workaround that has worked is to put the trill on a hidden staff and shorten it. Then I can edit the grace notes to play in the right place…

Interesting: can you share an example?

Fantasia - Flow 2.dorico (867.8 KB)

I’m not sure what you think is wrong.

Have you checked Playback Options>Timing>Grace Notes?

You use a curious notation. Normally that would be …

This my friend:

And this is after renotating it as you suggested and changing Playback Options>Timing>Grace Notes

As you can see, grace notes (despite having been set to play before the beat) are both mounted on top of each other and are even longer than the first note of the tuplet. I cannot move them, shorten them or do anything with them. Neither can I do any editing on the long trill note.

The fact that you cannot edit the played duration (and position) of the grace notes after a generated trill, is (I think) because Dorico calculates the trills so that it can incorporate the grace notes seamlessly, and you have some settings to influence globally the fastness of the trill or of it’s ending as I showed in my previous posts (and already with the default settings it sounds as expected from the notation, in my opinion).

To make this calculation, Dorico deactivates the Played durations dragging in key editor, because the manual dragging of notes positions, in this cases, would cause probably a big mess, with an abrupt cut/collision between the end of trill and the beginning of the grace notes, I think (if there are other reasons please someone corrects me).

If you delete the trill, you can see in Played durations view, how Dorico correctly positions the grace notes before the beat. When the trill is there, it deactivates the view and the dragging possibility, and calculates their timing in the background, instead.

(I am not sure if using the other option Use samples if possible would make possible a direct editing of the grace note position and length in played durations view. Did someone tried it?)

You didn’t specify how you want the grace notes to be played: if they should be as fast as the subsequent quintuplets sixteenth, than I would again suggest to notate them explicitly:

Or use the other method that you mentioned, with another staff…

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I suppose part of the problem is that I expect Dorico to play the trill as long as it would play a regular note i.e. 95% (default setting), which is what I was trying to get it to play. Then quickly play the grace notes to land on the 1 of the quintuplet. After all, a woodwind player needs to breath…:wink:. Dorico should not be making performance decisions for me. This why we have a key editor after all!