Long notes play out of range only with ffp-marking

Hi there. I discovered something strange. In the beginning of an score there is a very long note. It plays just fine until i mark an ffp. In this case, the whole bar cant be played, because in the plugin it says “out of range” even the following notes in that bar play an octave deeper as they should. . In my expression map there are no dynamic entries.
In scrub-playback it also plays as expected.

Also, when I copy and pase that exact same note to another place, it plays like expected. The file is attached.

Out of range.dorico (1.6 MB)

You forgot to say which plug-in and audio library you’re using.

From your description, I’d suggest that a key switch (or other MIDI trigger in your expression map) is causing an octave shift somehow.

If I change the Playback to Iconica Sketch, then it seems to work, which would also point the finger at your expression map.

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It’s Audio Modelind String Sections. No Keyswitches. It must be a combination of the “ffp” and the bars. Because when I copy the note to another place it works. When I change ffp to p it works.

EDIT: It really seems to be only the ffp. Even copying the note to another flow does not work

Basically, you can transpose the instruments, but it doesn’t happen. It drives me crazy. It must be something in the expression map. I used the expression map of the violins and transposed the instrument. It works. But since I haven’t set up anything with dynamic markings (on purpose) I don’t know where I should start searching.

Also accents turn it down by an octave. but then in some bars it does not

Strangely with accents , It Only Effects That One Note. With ffp or sfz the whole bar

If I connect Violins I directly to the SWAM plugin (meaning not to VEPro), everything seems to be playing as expected, including the dynamics, in the file you attached.

However, I also noticed that you have a “Natural” entry in the expression map that is indicated as Add-on and it seems to be triggering the CC assigned to senza sordino. There’re also separate Add-ons for sordino and senza sordino. No idea, obviously, if this is connected at all but it might be useful to go over the expression map carefully to check for any potential clashes.

The only other issue I can think about is something I experienced a long time ago - notes in the beginning of the flow that had offsets were not triggered (I fixed that by inserting a blank bar at the start of the flow).

Thanks for the reply. My first thought was, that it could be the first note not being triggered and added that bar. But it didn’t help. As you see in the second video it also happens with accents. I also tried to not play it through ensemble. Still the same.

I copied the expression map from the violins and violas and originally only changed the transposition and some bow pressure bahaviour. Still when using the violin expression map and transpose the instrument itself, it works.

There must be something in the expression map, that tells the SWAM instrument to not transpose with certain markings…. But where?

I wonder what would happen if you apply the generic expression map (meaning Natural = CC11/velocity, no other values or techniques present). ffp is a built in technique in Dorico that only needs an expression to work.

Works as expected with a plane map with only cc11 and velocity . I will now tidy up my expression map. It’s about time :joy:

I will probably never find out what caused the problem. I opened a project from yesterday and re exported the expression map. Although I did not change anything since then this one works…

Thanks to @benwiggy and @ebrooks . You are great people. It’s people like you, like @Janus and the whole team around @dspreadbury that always come to help. Thanks a lot

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Perhaps you could you also tidy up your original post to remove the reference to a “strange bug”?

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Well. I still think it is a bug. Since the behaviour appeared without changing anything. But yes. I will remove it.

But it looks like underlying problem was caused by user error in the expression map. Perhaps substitute “strange behaviour”?

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I just did the same thing and indeed the contrabassi didn’t trigger, even with the generic map.

This narrows it down to the transposition, as you already indicated earlier, so I think you were on the right track. Playing with transposition on the plug-in makes both expression maps work. My suggestion is to rework your expression map (you have triple tonguing for contrabassi, for example).

EDIT: I have to run, but quickly - here’s what I noticed about the transposition:

I don’t know enough about these things so maybe I have it all wrong but on my system everything works by fixing those values, even with re-opening the project. Cheers!

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… which I did not change. But even if I did: what was it that caused that behaviour? “ffp” and < only manipulate the expression data. When I just marked “p” and drew the cc11 by hand, everything was fine. When playing with scrub playback also. When selecting the note as well. But when hitting play the notes with “ffp” play an octave lower in some bars and in some not. And notes with accents always do.

Since @ebrooks was able to play my file normally it might be something very different that we will never find out. I even restarted my whole computer.

But anyway. Thank you all for taking you time.

I gave my original expression map for only violins and violas away to a fellow user who than added stuff (tremolo). I think he was wording on XM for all SWAM instruments and used a template.

I’m in contact with Andrea from Audio Modeling and we will discuss the expression map, since it works with a lot of pieces. And of course I will tighten them up. It’s still work in progress