Subscription = price gouging/rent seeking.
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As of this writing, that sample of one has 77 users.
As I understand English that qualifies for “dozens”, rather than “hundreds”.
Time to draw a line then
Yeah - it’s disappointing when people make grandiose claims that don’t seem to have much factual backing. But that seems to be quite fashionable for considerable parts of our species these days.
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That was my bad, earlier in the thread. The reason I found it relevant was because OP’s use of Adobe as an example of a company who got it right and overtook their competitor (Quark) - and I felt it’s worth mentioning that Adobe lit the fire in the industry of the subscription model with the introduction of their CreativeCloud - and none of their products can be licensed perpetually now. So IMHO the argument is flawed to use Adobe as a heroic example of a model software company overtaking the big guy, since my experience with them and many of their products has been that they in fact don’t listen to their professional customer base much at all.
And yes, Steinberg has publicly stated they are not going to introduce a subscription model, and it is something I appreciate about them – perhaps even suggests they are listening to users and not their wallets. Apologies for the off-topic confusion with that point!
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One of the communitys’ favourite subjects, namely Subscription vs Standard pricing models and what the future may or may not hold for our beloved DAW.
The other subjects, that lovers of the Steinberg DAW, enjoy:
- Grace period qualification
- Cubase vs Nuendo update cycle, aka Leap Frog
- Physical vs virtual licencing
- Bug squashing
- Beta testing
Enjoy, the next iteration of your favourite DAW!
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Loads of things people ask for, I’ve been doing with plugins really well for like a decade. Scads of ‘never had it, and maybe never will’ features in ALL of my hosts. Sandboxing some plugins, chaining/bridging plugins (without getting glitches when the transport is going), intense ‘vst parameter modulation’, and so much more if I bolt on some instances of bidule.
Loads of stuff I’d hoped for in Cubase had to do with the score editor and expression map system. It never happened, but now the slate is clean and a brand-new score editor is in the works (with road maps to tie things nicely with Dorico). For now, some things are a bit of a step backwards (xml import/export), but the future does look bright. Looking forward to seeing what they come up with, and I’ll score in Dorico.
Other things I’ve always wanted are little things like, adding more event types to the logical editors (both project and MIDI). Now with the new score editor, some of the things I wanted might be better suited to lua someday anyway. We’ll see.
Having said that, there have been droves of improvements and new features that I’d never dreamed of. Stuff I never ‘thought I’d need or use’ nor asked for in my own brainbox wish-list, but since trying it out, I sure as heck enjoy and use.
The remote-control system has been getting a major overhaul for a while now, while keeping the legacy system working for those of us who still need it. Lots of support for newer processors and system architectures. Inclusion of stuff like the Spectral Editor (Separate App, but ships with Cubase Pro, and there is extra ‘in-host’ support for it implemented). Newer versions of Cubase support interfacing with Wavelab better than ever before. Lots of new instruments and plugins in the box. Scads of improvements for the key editor. New window zones to work with. Efforts to get windowing and UI scaling to work with newer/bigger screens/resolutions. Dropping the old dongle. ATMOS/ARIA/etc…
Steinberg have been REALLY BUSY the past 5 or 6 years, on a huge range of products (Nuendo, Cubase, Dorico, Live, HALion, Wavelab, SpectraLayers, and more). I see and use a lot of music related software, and few if any companies aimed at serving the music industry have demonstrated as much development activity as Steinberg.
I think the people they listen to most these days are light years ahead of me. They’re asking for stuff I never dreamed I’d want or need these days! I’m pretty sure they are listening to users from scales and segments of the music production community. I just never thought of the things ‘other people’ are asking for.
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That’s ok. It doesn’t take much to get me confused
Adittedly, the last few updates have been real disappointments for me.
IMO, it feels so fundamental to have no some kind of midi library to simply allow drag/drop midi-clips, and a way to save automation curves so we can recall them later, rather than having to redo what we’ve done multiple times before.
But agree with others here, it’s not only Steinberg that is accused of not ever listening.
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You will never see this as Steinberg are the developers of VST and it’s not for them to support non-compliant plug-in’s.
Maybe so, but I’ve been doing it for years with third party plugins. No need to beg and wait for every dream feature. Often there are third party options out there.
Four I know of…
Vienna Pro Ensemble Server (don’t have or use that one, yet)
Two free ones I don’t have a lot of experience with but hear they are pretty good.
Audio Gridder
Kush View Elements
Bidule is the one I use most because it bolts on tons of real time sound design stuff, OCS servers/clients, and more. I also like this one in liveish settings where I need to add/remove plugins while the transport is going without getting ‘glitches’.
Not all changes are for the better. C12 and earlier (well, to 9.5) play videos with no issues on my i9 12900K/AMD 7900XTX system. C13 and C14 positively refuse to. And I’m not alone on this one.
And the switching around and renaming some of the older features is just a pain in the derriere.
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You forgot the grave accent : fixed it for you… 
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@Johnny_Moneto
Haha, I LOVE IT!
Cheeky blighters! 
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Yes, it’s true that there have been some ups and downs with some features, Steinberg is not perfect as we all know. I am aware that the video engine has had some issues with some video files in recent iterations. The codecs and sizes I use have been no problem for me, though, and overall, there has been a progression of improvements since Steinberg introduced their own video engine after being screwed by Apple with the end of Quicktime support on Windows several years ago. The features have regularly improved over the years since then, notwithstanding a few hiccups, which I hope get resolved for you soon! That is unfortunate. In my case, it’s been net positive for sure. On top of that, the full engine in Nuendo has many features I’ve been requesting for a long time. So again, net positive, but I totally understand what you are saying and your frustrations.
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Yep, I get it. Been around since Atari. And the old forum has many posts from me with heavy criticism of Steinberg here and there when things got rough. In more “recent” years, the last time I was pretty upset was when Direct Offline Processing (DOP) was introduced, and they removed the prior workflow. I can’t recall which version of Cubase that was… maybe 9? 9.5? Not only did they get rid of the previous workflow, but DOP was pretty much broken on launch, and it took a long time before it was usable IMO. Yes, this kind of thing happens from time to time, sometimes worse than others. But the last time it really impacted me was about 7-8-ish years ago. (Forgive me if I have my versions mixed up.) I also try to be conservative when I put a new version into production on paying jobs, so I tend to avoid showstoppers on launch. In your case, it sounds like you’ve had more recent issues, and I hope things get straightened out for you.
My post was not to say that Steinberg is perfect, on the contrary, we all know it isn’t. However, overall, the trajectory has been positive IMO, especially in recent years when they’ve found their groove and developed a better company culture. And C14 has been a milestone release, really impressive. And to the original point of the OP, my point was to suggest that Steinberg does indeed listen to user requests, and has been knocking out some pretty big ticket items that have been requested for many years…
Anyway, I get your point… of course there are issues and regressions and hiccups and dumb things that happen from time to time. I use most of the DAWs on the market, there are pain points with every DAW, and some developers do better than others. I’d put Steinberg in the upper tier though, compared to the legacy developers, in terms of issues like this. YMMV. Cheers!
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While I understand your frustration, what you ask for is not really realistic. Creating what users ask for, especially in a forum, is not how professional development of complicated software works. You listen to users and try to understand their needs but you don’t let them design the software. User’s can only articulate their own individual needs and very rarely have a holistic view of what actually creates value or even what’s possible. As a matter of fact, few developers even have that great an overview of the software they work on. It’s a tricky and difficult full time job that development leads and product owners struggle with. If just listening to what users ask for was the most effective way of building great software everyone would be doing it, but no one is, because it just does not work.
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I have an old eLc version that I upgraded, since I did once use it but now the SB rack re-orders plug-in’s (for instrument tracks at least) on the rack so I don’t need to be so concerned about consistency, with respect to a project setup and templating.
VEPro, was excellent though because even on a single system, I could have the same “rack” type setup, something not unlike other software such as Reason but I never used the EQ or other in-line effects becasue I have a MOTU 8A, which has channel based, hardware signal processing and then it’s UAD for the mixing/pre-mastering stage (WaveLab).
Basically, VST3 has nearly cancelled any need for bridging but I get why it is there and I am willing to give anything a go that might offer greater flexibility, with the promise of more consistency however I only have one remaining VST2.4 plug-in and I can’t wait to see it replaced with a modular and coherent VST3 version.
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