But Mod damn… The mixer in Cubase is a clickfest galore (I hate it).
It may work if you mix as you go, as in composing/tracking and mixing in the same go… But try to import 100 audio tracks for mixing…
Twice the time it takes to set up the same mix in Studio One.
Color code one track at a time (No, NOT events - Tracks, so that you get the same color coding in the mixer).
Twice the time it takes to drag and drop in insert plugins in S1.
No re-ordering of tracks in the mixer (makes me nuts after a couple of hours spent in S1).
a whole lot more… So yes, Cubase needs to be “modernized” in many areas.
PS. I really prefer/love to track/record in Cubase over S1, due to the brilliant combination of Lanes and Track Versions.
But if they don’t get the mixer better than in 8.5, I certainly will mix incoming projects in S1… I may mix as I go in C8.5 with projects I produce from start to end.
And yes, many deep things in Cubase. Certainly for midi (but I am mainly an audio guy). All midi are rendered to audio prior to mixing.
PS. Any advice to reduce the clickfest within the Cubase mixer?
Mind you, I have already hidden the eq and channel strip mess (if I need it, I reach it from the Channel Editor).
One advice: Go to the Project page, select all the Tracks you want the same color (be sure that NO single event is selected!!!) go up to the Toolbar and choose the color you want. (of course your Color Menu should be visible on the Toolbar).
Could you elaborate a bit more about importing 100 tracks? I assume you mean .wav files from clients where lining up is an issue? Or do you mean importing tracks from prior Cubase projects? I assume you know about that long awaited feature in C8.5. It’s not complete, but definitely a good start.
Color coding works for me. Do what Winter Rat suggested. My only gripe with color is that Steinberg should up their game designing colors instead of us relying on 3rd party color packages such as the very well done Irlo. http://www.dawlab.net/color-pack-for-cubase-inc-maschine-colors/
There is also a very good pastel color pack that is just as nice as Irlo, and when you combine both, you get a very powerful set of colors. But the problem is…when selecting colors from the inspector instead of the tool bar there is a bug. You can’t scroll colors further than your screen. The bug has been reported years ago. But who cares except myself and a few others who use many more colors?
Re-ordering sure would be nice…as well as more insert slots. But I doubt that’s coming any time soon.
Mixer click fest. What exactly are you wanting to do? The first issue, assuming you use multiple video monitors, is for Steinberg to create a way to focus the different mix consoles. Again, who cares except myself and a few others who muse mix console 1,2, & 3?
Use and learn as many key commands as you can that you believe will improve workflow. Once the mix console is actually focused learn the navigation. It’s a far cry from really functional. I use a QconPro (Mackie MCU) to control most stuff, but I have discovered adding generic controllers from my VMK-188 and using quick controls for sends definitely helps when mixing. Less mouse!
While key commands, micros and sometimes the logical editor are helpful, sometimes it also adds to frustration. Examples include missing key commands and key commands that only “get you half way there.”
Learn what I think are the 3 main ways to export and import stuff for the mix consoles.
Save selected/load selected (not very useful for me because of the limitations of saving/loading EXACT number of tracks and the fact that it won’t work with instrument tracks.
Track Presets plenty of information on their uses and drawbacks.
File>export selected tracks / File>import>track archive or File>import tracks from project.
I would love it if I’m missing any additional methods. I’m far from an expert, but I have discovered that the 3rd method works the best for myself because it is very comprehensive as far as what it stores, as opposed to the other 2 methods. If you use Kontakt, EZ Drummer, or Superior Drummer creating these templates for every EZX, SDX, or a Kontakt Orchestral template is very useful.
However the lack of consistency in Cubase is infuriating - IMHO you should be able to do this in the mixer too. There are too many features in c8.5 which feel half baked, and not tested with humans i.e. rhey work but not consistently across the application. Cubase has so many features - my one great hope for C9 is Steinberg tie them all together and polish up what is basically an amazing piece of software.
Interesting that you cite CPU consumption as a problem and Studio One as its superior in this regard. I am/was a Studio One user and I just bought a Cubase license because of problems with CPU use in Studio One (more accurately, it was a long litany of bugs popping up just as the last was fixed. The CPU problem was the last straw). It would sporatically just start using ridiculous amounts of CPU for relatively mundane tasks. An instance of u-he Satin would surpass 13% on an i7 6700k, whereas in Ableton Live I can add Satin to half the tracks in a project full of VSTi and un-bounced sound design, and never see it go above 50%. Even before the recent CPU problems, I’ve always noticed that S1 appears to consume nearly twice as much CPU as Live while running the same plugins. Some of this can be chalked up to inconsistencies in CPU meters between DAWs if you want to give Presonus the benefit of the doubt, but some portion of it is (IMO of course) undeniably reflected in the larger buffer needed to run smaller, lighter projects than what I do in Live (granted, this is anecdotal evidence). I also own almost everything from Izotope, and Studio One handles their plugins particularly badly, which is a big problem for me.
The mixer… I’ll learn to live with it. Cubase has a reputation for being rock solid and right now that’s what I need.
@ All:
Yes, I mean importing x numbers of audio tracks recorded at other studios and/or other systems… ie to set up a mix from scratch.
And yes, I have my templates with all the groups etc… in place (I have used Nuendo and Cubase since SX1 and N1.6). So I know my way around Cubase… But, the mixer I will never get “friendly” with
So you are saying that selecting several tracks and change color by the meny at top works? I have only tried directly on the track/tracks in the tracklist in the arr page… Will try, and maybe one step down
But why doesn’t it work the same from both places, when it is the same function? Why have it at multiple places (top meny, directly on the tracks and within the mixer) if it doesn’t work consistently?
Steinberg in a nutshell I suppose…
Hey greggybud… You know me well (from before and other forums - I just can’t use my proper name anymore ), and we have always been very close in our meanings about Cubase and Steinberg.
And yes, I know all about the three last points you wrote… And yes, I use two 27 inch monitors (when mixing, usually audio track in mixer 1 on the left and Groups and FX in mixer 2 on the right, with the mixer 3 behind for additional stuff). Opening/closing mixer 1 reveals/hides the arr age, while opening/closing mixer 2 reveals/hides mixer 3…
When tracking, I have my mixer 3 with inputs, Groups for Cue Sends, and the control room mixer (which also were much better in prior versions btw)
And yes, in the event of starting a mix project from scratch, I were able to get up and running in Studio One in about half the time… Both with proper Templates going (all groups set up etc…)
PS. My last mix project involved 83 audio tracks, all lining up from the same start point.
Yep, I do think the mixer is one of the biggest reasons for SOME to leave Cubase…
By the news, do you mean that even the Steinberg employees “hate” the pop-ups and such? That something’s in the air in that departement?
For me, on 3 different Windows 10 machines, Studio One and Reason are MUCH more CPU friendly than Cubase. No contest really. Big difference in my experience.
What may bog down Studio One, is that some plugins (all I have now fixed) worked a bit “funky” in Windows 10. A couple of plugins/vendors (among them Softube, now fixed) also needed Studio One to be run in Win8 compatibility mode.
That’s certainly a bummer to hear. I guess I’ll have to wait and see what happens. Unfortunately, in my case the S1 problem was less an issue of poor optimization and more about something being obviously wrong. With my i7 I go crazy in Live with cpu-hungry synths, analog modeled stuff, etc and never feel the hit. In S1 I run some effects and EQs on audio tracks and would surpass 60-70% in no time. Add Izotope plugs to the mix and I can easily hit 100%. Huge problem for me. Trash 2 is among my main sound design tools, and Ozone has become a staple for me as well. Neutron I’m still feeling out, but it’s the worst of the bunch, with as much as 25% per instance in S1, whereas in Live it’s maybe 3-5%. So as long as Cubase doesn’t do that, I’ll be a happy camper.
Cubase was really one of only two alternatives because I can’t live without the Cubase/Studio One/Pro Tools vocal comping style. Reaper does it in a way that feels archaic to me. Samplitude is fantastic but has always felt kind of… unwieldy to me.
+1 for improvements to the mixer. It really needs to be equal to the project window in terms of moving tracks about, colouring things and adjusting all effects. I.e. standalone, so you can close the project window when mixing and just get on with the task in hand.
Other than that, Cubase is very deep indeed. I use many functions across the whole board (except for score) and it is most stable for me. Audio glitching occurs periodically but that’s life
Chiming in to say that this has been my experience too with Reason, on Mac. I’m on Cubase now almost all of the time because it’s much better for my film scoring workflow, but it definitely takes a big hit in the CPU department compared to Reason. Also Pro Tools is much more CPU friendly, in my experience so far. On my system Cubase and Reason share the same VST plug-ins, FYI.
I’m really getting into the macro thing in Cubase and am loving it. There are some composer-specific features that are amazing, too, and are superior to the other DAWs I’ve used.
I for one support the use of kittens in beta testing if we did not sacrifice little kittens we would have mo medicine, humans would die of cancer, and there would no longer be any music.Large kittens, the ones that can eat us, are excluded from this on ethical grounds.
I wanted to chime in here, being a relatively new user to Cubase. I’ve been on 8.5 Pro for about a month and 1/2 now, coming from Pro Tools. Cubase is a truly great program and is really deep, agreed! Needs some improvement like all DAW’s do, of course. And I wanted to note that I also have noticed a very significant difference in “CPU” usage compared to what I was doing in Pro Tools. Projects with lots of tracks and instruments and groups, etc., crap the computer out far sooner than they do in Pro Tools, which is honestly driving me crzy with bigger scoring projects. I’ve also tried Reaper here and there over the years, so this morning for the hell of it I recreated a large scoring session with the exact same routings and exact same VST plugs and instruments. For me Reaper was at about 65% with lots of breathing room and Cubase was stuttering audibly because it was overloading. I hate Reaper and I also am done with Pro Tools for now, but this something worth noting and I hope it’s gonna be fixed in C9!
A workaround for running out of cpu is to take some of your most cpu intensive tracks and Render in Place (& disable the source track) so they become straight audio tracks. If you want to adjust things later you can re-enable the original track.
I personally think the mixer is great and very powerful.
Best thing is that it’s fully in sync with the project / arrangement view, you can hide channels, group thrm, VCA them
What’s not to like?
