LR+Sub - Missing feature for over 10 years

I’m reading forum posts from 2011 on this subject and it is infuriating that Steinberg has not fixed this yet. With Atmos taking off and having just installed an Atmos 7.1.4 setup, this is a must now. We need a downmix option in control room that is LR+LFE or LR+Sub. Why, when I am using the bass management plugin in control room and have it set to “mains to subwoofer,” does my sub get turned off when having a stereo input selected. I don’t want to hear any “well LFE is different than bass management.” We all understand that. But why is it so hard to give us an option for Sub on/off in control room or a LR+Sub downmix option for a stereo input??? There’s an LRC+LFE option, why not a more realistic, more common setup too?? I need to use the same LR and Sub for my stereo monitoring as well as my 7.1.4. This wasn’t an issue until I installed Atmos and have to use the same speakers for both. Now I’m just irritated. From what I can tell, people have been asking for this for over 10 YEARS. Come on Steinberg. Fix this.

In my previous setup I used bass management for both 5.1 and stereo using the bass management plugin and it was no problem. I’m not sure how you have your Control Room set up so could you please explain that in detail?

Yes, but unless we know which one you need and which one you’re talking about it’s hard to make sense of what you’re asking for. I’ve so far never seen a 2.1 deliverable. So that leaves monitoring, right?

We can’t tell why you’re getting no low-end using a stereo input selected. The way I’ve gone about it in the past is to set up one monitoring/speaker path that’s as wide as my playback system (5.1 currently) and then when monitoring a stereo input that’s literally all I do; I switch from a 5.1 monitor source to a stereo source which automatically maps to LR in the 5.1 channel. The bass manager plugin works just fine in that scenario, and the signal going to the sub isn’t turned off. Seems fully predictable to me.

This is a different question now, correct? What you could do is set up a separate monitor output and not have bass management instantiated in it. Then set key commands to select the different outputs.

This is why it’s confusing. You don’t downmix a stereo input to three channels. “Downmix” is going from more channels to fewer, not sending signal to the LFE or Subwoofer. So like I said, pick the output format you want and make sure it has enough channels to accommodate the amount of speakers you need and then just use the plugin. It works on my end.

If you mean 2.1 then sure, that’s a more common monitor setup than 3.1. But on the other hand using a 3.1 doesn’t do you any harm. Or 5.1. Or 7.1. The only thing that happens when you decide to select a stereo input is that fewer channels get used. You’re not really ‘wasting’ much as far as I can see.

Or am I missing something here?..

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Mattias, thanks for your reply. Let me elaborate.

CR is currently set up having all 4 monitors used - I have A (7.1.4), B (stereo NS10s), C (Stereo Cubes), and D (a bluetooth speaker). Therefore when mixing in stereo, I need to access all A-D monitors as stereo, sans the A which need the sub outputted as well. Currently I have the Bass Manager plugin in the main output plugin section of CR. When inputting 7.1.4, the BM does exactly what I expect/want. When inputting stereo, it was muting the sub. However, when I just checked again (after a relaunch) it is now working as you said above.

However, this fixes one problem (stereo with sub), but a 2.1 downmix would still be nice as for Atmos, it is nice to check several downmixes (7.1.4, 5.1, full range stereo) and changing the downmix to stereo on my 7.1.4 speakers turns off the sub. Therefore I can’t check a full range stereo downmix from CR, only from the renderer. Annoying at best, not a deal breaker.

I am talking about BM when monitoring a stereo input and LFE+BM when in Atmos. But yes, the 2.1 monitoring setup when in both is what I’m after.

This is what I expected, hence why I took to the forum when it wasn’t working and after reading a post from 2011, I got frustrated. I have no idea why it wasn’t working but now it is.

Technically yes, but I tagged feature request because this should be a thing. 2.1 monitors (or LR+Sub) aren’t even an option to add anywhere. That is terrible. We’ve got 22.2 and 10.2 experimental, but no 2.1? That is one of the most basic setups and functions of a monitor controller is to have a stereo set of speakers with a sub and be able to mute the sub. This should be an option in the software monitor controller that CR essentially is.

Again, I am using all 4 of the monitor outputs, otherwise this may work. And for Atmos downmix, this is where a 2.1 downmix or monitor output config would be helpful. But that is not an option, only a 3.1 is available. But to check downmixxed phantom center information in Atmos is not even an option from CR.

They are called downmixes in Nuendo, and I get that, but they also function as monitor layouts. I understand that you can’t “downmix” 2 channels to 3, but with BM plugin, you are creating that 3rd channel. I just think that should be built into CR and be accessible.

In a stereo input scenario, no a 3.1 doesn’t do any harm, however at 7.1.4, a 2.1 downmix should be available.

I love CR, I really do and Nuendo, been using it for 10 years, but there are stupid little things like this that shouldn’t be so hard to figure out or get set up to function properly in all scenarios.

Thanks for replying and trying to help. I’m glad it’s working now. I will leave this with the feature request, because I still believe a 2.1 monitoring setup should be incorporated into CR.

So, in a nutshell you’re asking Steinberg to add Bass Management to the Control Room.

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I’m guessing that’s probably best practice anyway.

Got it. I can see how being able to bypass bass management is a good feature.

I wonder though how it could be done in practice. They’d need to find a hook into the plugin somehow. Perhaps making plugin parameters in Control Room inserts available to key commands in general. Or make bass management integrated into the monitor paths somehow. This might not be as easy to solve as it may seem.

In a nutshell, yes.

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Yeah, it kind of makes sense for Bass Management to just be part of Control Room anyway rather than a separate plugin in my opinion anyway.

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I’m not familiar with the atmos renderer.

But if you have all your monitors ABCD used, and still want to monitor a Stereo Donwnmix, you can create a Stereo Output Bus, send your downmixed mix to that bus, and then select it as a monitor source in Control Room. Then you can use your monitor A, and all channels except LR will be ignored and you will have your stereo mix properly played back.