Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Cubase
#26

I’m a software developer and have developed for Mac and iOS. That’s not how it works. Developer builds are out there for a reason and companies use them. It’s not a “huge waste of time” by any means – it SAVES time from being late with an update when the release comes out.

Sure, Apple (or any other company releasing a new OS) can change something between builds, but there’s also a specific roadmap communicated at WWDC, stuff known in advance (new libs added, documented changes to existing APIs and services etc.) that has to be adopted early. It’s not like Steinberg has to re-architect large parts of Cubase to keep up with any new beta. And even devoting a couple of programmers would make a big difference in their update coming sooner.

Other, more diligent companies, already have updates out, for equally or even more complex programs (including DAWs).

#27

I think we speak of different kind of time-saving here. I mean developer man hours, not time to release. I agree developing for the beta cycle will mean being ready earlier for the new version. And yet, I don’t think they should do it.

#28

This.

#29

One final thought and then I have to go: I think there’s also a perception issue here which comes from the fact that Steinberg is very careful about OS updates.

They had the big disclaimer up not to use Windows 10 all these months, but in my own tests there were no issues, so I jumped on it early. Working ten hours a day on it, it took me weeks to even notice what it was they were warning about, and then it was really easy to work around until Microsoft fixed in on their end. Similarly, C8 works on my MacBook Pro with El Capitan just fine. I have no idea what the issues are, but the MBP is not my work computer, so I could’ve missed something. So do NOT take my word for it.

But I think some other DAW companies would probably just say “oh well” and add the new OSs on the list of supported systems and just consider the issues like any other bug. I think people are aware of that and probably don’t update to El Cap before a critical session with any of those programs. At least I hope they don’t.

However, it would help if Steinberg communicated a little more clearly what the actual issues are. It’s good to give the overall “don’t use it yet” warning, but people who are more eager to check out the new OS should have a better idea of what they should expect not to work. The general doom and gloom warnings make it look like Steinberg’s software completely breaks every time, which is not true.

#30

Agreed. For me Cubase 8.0.3 worked just fine on El Capitan - it was my Scarlett 18i6 interface which wouldn’t play nicely - that’s why I personally had to roll back to Yosemite. Focusrite however say the issue is with Steinberg, not Apple…

#31

Why not blaming Apple instead ? Why does Apple screw everything that is not in the Apple Cult Ecosystem every time they release an update ? … :wink:

And between us: what’s so urgent or exciting about 10.11 ? (I’m still looking for this on another machine I have installed it… )

That being said, I also concur that some other DAW softwares tend to be faster in their updating schedule…

Cheers,
Rob

#32

Hi Ed,

Thanks for clarifying here in the forum when we can expect to see some news on progress with the challenges that you have uncovered with respect to the latest update in the Mac OS X implimentation. I have no doubt in my mind that much of the issue list is with the early to market feature improvements and bundle software security fixes model that the two COTS Operating Systems vendors are sadly now hell bent on pursuing, and what that places on the sholders of third party applications developers such as your organisation behind the scenes.

Hopefully the takeaway for you and the management team of Sternberg is that you need to communicate some more detail as to the challenges and assign some time frames or goals to achieve compatibility is something that you really need to do a lot better with future news releases, especially if you wish to retain your level of user product satisfaction.

All the best with the efforts to resolve the compatibility issues and I look forward to some positive and affirmative plans resulting out of the Monday discussions.

Ron Southworth

#33

Fo those not running Steinberg software exclusively, here’s a list compiled by sweetwater.com that lists the current state of El Capitan compatibility for most major DAWs.

#34

My goodness. My how many more times does this need to be said? BECAUSE not all of us have a dedicated (very expensive) Mac for our (very expensive) Cubase software. Some of use use our Macs for other, equally valid pursuits.

#35

Well even more reason not to upgrade to the latest OS if you’re using your machine for other vital tasks. The marginal benefits of upgrading are usually outweighed by the misery that accompanies being a guinea pig.

#36

I can’t imagine for one moment that you know better than me if I should upgrade my OS. Or if your idea of a “marginal benefit” matches mine.

FWIW, I upgraded, it didn’t work, I rolled back to Yosemite.

Anyway you cut it, Cubase Pro 8 costs a chunk of change and you would expect it to work with a widely previewed, advertised and available (for months to developers or anyone particularly interested) major new operating system.

Waiting til release day, then doing (or at least communicating) nothing for three weeks, then doing nothing again, then publishing a list via Sweetwater of companies who also didn’t get their act together, is poor.

If you’re happy with that then more power to you.

#37

Well you upgraded, it didn’t work and now you’re back on Yosemite so actually it appears that I did know better than you :laughing:

Next time listen to what the moderators say about when to upgrade and you’ll do better in the future.

Good luck

#38

You’re so right. Thank you.

#39

Testing your software products with early preview versions of a new operating system is very useful to detect major issues. Steinberg does perform such testing, of course.

Minor issues, though, will crop up even in later preview versions, as the OS manufacturer is constantly tweaking the new operating system’s behaviour.

Also, not all of a new operating system’s known issues are solved by its manufacturer with the first official release version.

I would imagine that it is not easy to decide which is more harming in the long run:
Recommending to upgrade to a new operating system, while there are still unresolved issues, or recommending to refrain from upgrading, even though you might disappoint users.


I agree that transparent communication is a good thing, and helps to create understanding for tough decision making.

Best,
Dirk

#40

Hi Dirk,

I concur :slight_smile:

This is the first statement that I’ve seen from Steinberg that mentions any testing prior to the OSX public release - in fact one of your colleagues specifically said that was not the case, so thanks for clarifying.

I totally understand the predicament that an OS upgrade can put you in, but as you say, transparent communication is a good thing. The thing that didn’t sit well for me and perhaps others (discounting the fanboys) was Steinberg’s apparently casual approach to the whole issue, and not for the first time, regrettably.

Bluntly, the impression formed - perhaps unfairly, was that Steinberg had done nothing prior to release, were not exactly rushing to find a solution, and treating its customers like mushrooms…

Thanks for the reply and good luck sorting things.

#41

any update? Can we get an estimated date to have a compatible release?

Thanks

#42

They’ll assemble the project leads in a month or so to form a committee on the matter, which will present its suggestions so that an expert team can start preparing a roadmap for that.

#43

what a short and easy process, why to not involve NASA?.. forget Cubase, will step to other better maintained, supported and cheap products.

#44

WOW!! What a terrible and unhelpful thread for the most part! Too many assumptions and not enough info to help others move forward.

Regardless of a developers upgrade/update process or policy, my stance is to never trust an upgrade. Too many computer setups, too many variations.

For those who do everything on a single machine, can I suggest you partition your hard-drive and run a dual boot system. E.g. Mavericks on one and e.g. El Capitan on the other. Super critical if you make your living on it.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac-software/run-el-capitan-on-hard-drive-yosemite-on-mac-3533305/

BACKUP YOUR DRIVE first of course using Time Machine or other and follow the steps on the link above. This will end the need for conversations like these.

Be nice people. I have my gripes with Steinberg on occasion, mostly to do with their communication, but rarely their intent. They are dedicated and hard working people :slight_smile:

#45

NO! THEY ARE NOT!

Developer releases are for developers, NOT for testing at all. They are to give app developers an idea of what is going into the new OS ‘soup mix’ so they can get a heads start on what to put some attention to in regards to what they can start taking advantage of in their app design.

Testing doesn’t care about the future. They are about making sure the past won’t came back to bite in the !!!. They need stable OSs to test against, otherwise anything already tested may be changed under them, making any effort up until then a waste of time and money.

Between the Developer and Consumer previews of Win8, there were over 100,00 changes. No third-party product team is even going to think about testing as-they-go with that type of change onslaught. It is reasonable to think that similar sorts of change numbers would be happening between OSX previews.

There is a reason why enterprises can take up to two years to implement an OS upgrade. It is all the evaluation, regression testing and app remediation required.

DAWs are probably the most complex prosumer software around. Each one will have differences in architecture, with many parts inherited over many years. Thus they will not all have the same issues with a new OS version.