How best to access multiple takes in Cubase Elements 7? I was working on a tricky guitar part and cycle recorded several measures. My way of getting them visible in the part editor was 1) dissolve parts (if any previously existed) 2) de-select all 3) select all events on selected tracks (I make sure only one track is selected) 4) events to part.
It works the first time after a cycle recording. Then, if more work is needed on the part, things can get nasty. Even after dissolving parts and deselecting all, then re-doing 3) and 4), not all of my takes are visible and accessible. After spending a lot of time on what I could access, I found a better take in the pool by chance.
I can’t work like this! Takes shouldn’t disappear in the Bermuda triangle. What can I do to see, audition and edit all events on a track? It seems like there must be an easier way of seeing and editing lanes of a track.
This is not much help, sorry, but a good friend of mine rapidly upgraded to Artist for this very reason! He was not that pleased about having to do it, but that’s life.
Alternatively, can you just record new ‘work’ on the same part onto a new track? I used to do this sort of thing before they introduced lanes years back, using Dup track and delete/mute etc. Tedious but it was the way then…
So basic editing functions are not included in Elements? Strange, the first LE 4 version I installed had “lane view” for the tracks. This was gone after the first patch, which was supposed to make the software stop crashing (but didn’t).
I recall reading an older post about lane editing. Are you sure the problem is solved in Artist?
Multiple tracks for the same part: tedious, but not as bad as disappearing takes.
I wonder how others get around this problem, would appreciate tips.
I have noticed takes disappearing in the full version before. It usually seems to be part takes which haven’t completed when recording during cycle mode. I don’t know how it works in elements but I find them by dragging the boundaries back and there’s the cycle that I’m expecting.
OK, I just did a quick test… On my full version I put loop on and recorded 2 and 1/2 loops. When I pressed stop, the 3rd event which was recording disappeared. (I’d rather it stayed even though it’s incomplete!)
The next thing I did was look at the new file in the pool. It has a + sign next to the name, and If I click this then I see the 3 takes, the 3rd has ‘incomplete’ next to it.
Now, what I mean by boundaries is that in fact all the takes are in a single audio file and if you resize any one of those takes on the timeline then you will reveal the audio of the next or previous take.
So, if I extend the end of the 1st take to double it’s size then I’m fully revealing the 2nd take. Likewise I can get back the 3rd take that disappeared by extending the 2nd take. I tend to do this then cut at the loop end point and drag back the incomplete take to where it should be.
I know you have a different system but there may be some clues here! I expect that Elements still has the missing takes hidden beyond the boundaries of the clips so you can drag the boundaries and find the audio.
Thanks, Mike, for going through the trouble you did. I’m not entirely sure about what you mean by re-size. I found that when I selected the last take, a triangle appeared at the bottom of the wave display that let me choose which take to have on top. I chose the first one and extended the end with my mouse. Interestingly, I could hear them all in order then, 2 measures were expanded to 6 for three takes. But the only way to edit the multiple recording was the complicated procedure I described in the first post, and that doesn’t always seem to work.
I’m not worried about losing incomplete takes - on a cycle recording, once I think the take was good, I let the cycle continue into an empty take before pressing the space key to stop. The disappeared take I mentioned that I recovered in the pool was a complete, not a partial take.
Since Cubase shows the lanes if you click the bottom triangle, is there some way to select them and turn them into a part to work with?
Yes, Cubase records takes continuously in a single audio file, when you extend a take you hear the next take, they’re all in order, that’s how it works.
By ‘resize’ I mean dragging the event boundaries as you’ve done. Each audio event on the timeline is just a window into the actual audio file that’s been recorded - as you’ve found out I think. So you can expand or contract it to play more or less of the original recording. [This is very useful for removing coughs in the middle of vocals for instance, so you can just chop the part and remove the offending section without deleting the audio.]
Takes are all different on Elements to the full version so I can’t really answer your end question there. On the full version we can see all takes in ‘lanes’ just like they’re on different tracks. So we can edit each take and mute/chop etc. It’s very easy. And this is why my friend upgraded from Elements to Artist because he needed to see the takes on separate lanes!
Another thing we have in the full version is a ‘container’ part which can hold stacked audio tracks, perhaps Elements has this? It would be a command called ‘Event to Part’ or something like that.
I suspect you don’t have any form of seeing all the takes at once as this is probably one feature which Steinberg cut out of Elements to reduce the specification, and thus the value/cost of the software.
That command does exist and there is a part editor - if all parts have been selected, they are shown stacked over each other in the editor and it’s fairly easy to audition, choose the best of different takes, mute unwanted audio, cut out snippets and slide them to correct timing problems. But if you’re still not satisfied and need to record the same part again, it’s cumbersome to dissove the parts, deselect everything, reselect all on selected tracks, then create a part again. And it doesn’t always seem to work, unless I’m making some mistake. This part editor function was available even in LE versions.
The only thing along this line that my operation manual called “container” were folder tracks, which can also be edited in a similar way, and then folded back up so they don’t clutter the project. Not ideal, but better than nothing.
The main advantage of the higher versions was supposed to be the number of effects and instruments, but maybe I’m wrong on that.
Ah yes, you already mentioned the part editor, and that’s the full circle back to the pita editing when adding extra takes!!
I had a quick scan down the comparison chart and Lane Editing isn’t mentioned. But Advanced Comping is, and it’s not in Elements. Perhaps that’s their name for Lane Editing?
If you a have repro then you could post it as a bug, although judging by the response on this thread I’d say that not many Elements users are here, so getting other people to confirm is going to be tough. But it might get a moderator’s attention.
I’ve just upgraded fromElements 6 to Elements 7. I am badly missing the functionality of the Audio Part Editor in 6. (Hopefully I have missed a set-up?) The Audio Part Editor in Elements 6 showed me, by default, all events on separate lanes immediately on opening the Audio Part Editor after performing “Events to part”.
I can individually - if possible - separate all the vents and drag them to new lanes, but this is not practical - in an Audio Part I often have dozens of takes, with multiple tiny events in each from previously editing each take.
Elements 6 worked fine for me in this way. I could open the Part Editor to see dozens of lanes, and work through them till I had my “comp” by selecting my chosen events in each lane for each point in the track.
I think it still works in Elements 7, but it’s important to have all the audio on the track selected before you convert events to part. Sometimes you have to de-select everything and try again. It’s a cumbersome process, IMO. Especially if you add a new recording on the same track - you have to undo the events to part, then make sure everything is de-selected, then select all events on track, then convert events to part. Maybe Steinberg has a programmer with a secret agenda: to drive users to buy an alternative DAW.
It still works as you say, but - at present anyway -the audio editor opens with all the events in the same lane. I’ve been testing it with just two events, for clarity - in numerous projects - and there is only ever one lane, unless I drag an event down below the lane, in which case a 2nd lane forms.
Yes, the issues you mention are rather cumbersome, but I had been used to managing them. As well as having to Dissolve Part and start again when adding new takes, it’s tricky when the events on the track to be made into an Audio Part were contiguous to adjacent events… I often have to zoom in horizontally and vertically in order to find a bit of blank space in which to place the cursor for selecting. But better than nothing…which sadly is what I have at present. Fortunately my Cubase 6 is still operational.
Hi again Singadream,
I also posted my previous reply in it’s own thread in Cubase 7 Presales, hoping to learn whether this is a bug, or a setting I’ve missed, or whether in 7 the function of the Editor has become more constrained (though more elegant in some ways)…ie only works for some situations, not including re-recording in the same track, moving events around, or imported files.
I had some useful advice from moderator Guillermo. However the upshot is, I still cannot use the Part Editor in Cubase Elements 7, though it is fine in Elements 6.
Have you used the Editor for imported files and events moved from different tracks? Or just for events recorded in that track?
Hi Jac,
Mostly for parts recorded on the same track. But I don’t see why it shouldn’t work for a snippet dragged and dropped from somewhere else. Are you sure you have all parts deselected (to be on the safe side), then select everything on the selected track, then make the events into a part. As soon as you record any new element, you have to do this in the reverse order and then go through the process again. If it still doesn’t work (even if you de-select twice just to be sure), then your system reacts differently than mine - have you tried de- and re-installing the program?
I did reinstall again just now, (& initialized prefs.) but that made no change.
However when I tried what you said (sheepish grin) - i.e. selecting the WHOLE TRACK i.e. all events the entire length of it (That wasn’t necessary in 6, but I can live with it) - it worked. Temporary jubilation. Events in lanes when Editor was opened.
However, (new test), when I made a Part from audio files imported into different tracks, then dragged into the same track - even with “All events on track selected”, the events were NOT in lanes in the Editor
I then tried the prior successful test, i.e. existing events (which had been recorded in the project) dragged into the same lane - selected All events on track - made Part - and - not in lanes in the Editor! Not consistent with previous test, in the same project. Is importing files, moving events in tracks, or something else, changing something or triggering a bug?
Are you consistently getting all events appearing in lanes in the Editor?
I need to get on with other things now for a day or two, but will try from scratch again asap and report back,
Hi Jac,
To be honest, I’m trying out another DAW because of these issues. I went for Cubase because it has a listening tool which makes auditioning and choice of the best snippets fast. But the difficulty in defining parts and having to undo and redo so many steps is a real disadvantage to the work flow. The first version of Cubase I tried, LE4, had the feature of opening lanes with one click. Unfortunately it was too buggy to use without an update patch, which deleted that feature. Now we have version 7, and the feature still hasn’t been restored. Progress?
Good luck singadream. I’m considering the same, but having used Cubase a long time, I enjoy my ease of movement around it, and the keyboard-based approach. And yes, the “speaker” feature is great.
Background on the “lanes” development is interesting. I skipped from 1.0.1 to 6, without too much trouble.
I’ve got dozens of old Cubase projects I like to work on from time to time, so I’m persevering for now. So I have posted this on the “Issues” board, and hopefully I’ll learn something useful.
