Master channel output higher than soloed track one

Hi everyone,
I’m having a strange problem, if I’m not missing something :thinking:, as master channel output level results to be higher than a single soloed track playing (song mix), both with no plugins inserted… Both tracks faders are at unity…
I’m on Cubase 12pro at the moment.
Thank you for hints (and best wishes for a happy new year, anyway)
Art

Can you share some pictures of your settings and routing?

Hi @MattiasNYC,
sorry for my delay…
Here some screenshots of the mixer console, so you can check all the routings…

  1. the ‘suspected’ track and the master one when project’s stopped
  2. same tracks after the first guitar chord hits (you can notice an output level difference yet)
  3. the whole mix console after I re visualized some hidden tracks to check if one of more would play… (here you can see only a part of them, due to screen dimensions but all of them are routed correctly and all inserts/sends are bypassed)
    I also checked ‘global meter position’ and it’s set to ‘post fader’…
    Thank you for helping!
    Art

What’s “Phoenix Rising”? It shows signal as well when the other track is soloed.

Hi @MattiasNYC,
it’s a reference track but it’s only plays as a cue; if I solo it no signal goes to master output as you can see in this screenshot.
(The FX channel between ref track and master was already present and I locked it to the right zone) but it was muted even when I wrote the first message)
Thank you for answering,
Art

Well, don’t know what to tell you really. It looks like either there’s just a bit of lag between the source track and the output and maybe that’s why you’re seeing different values, or there is one or more sources feeding the output at the same time and you just didn’t find the source.

Do a save-as of the project and start deleting tracks to see if the behavior changes. You can do it in ‘chunks of 50%’: Start by deleting the first half of the tracks ("0-50%) and see if you get the same level. If you don’t then undo the second half. If you do then you know there’s something going on in that first 50% and so you simply undo the change and delete only the first 25% instead. If nothing changes you know the problem should be in the second 25% (“25-50”) and so you delete half of that, and so on until you find the problem track(s).

If you’re left with only the track you soloed and the output and you still have a problem then start a new project and create just a source track and an output bus and redo the work for the two and check again.

I’m not seeing this behavior in Nuendo and it’s quite unusual, so I think you’re likely just missing something.

Hi all, what about the ‘pre’ gain in the output channel (pictures doesn’t show the ‘pre’ sectionof the channels)? Have you checked that? Or the ‘channel strip’ section of cubase mixer, also hidden in your pictures?.. I also see something more happening, not only a gain difference, but the stereo balance also changes (?)… so, check if you are monitoring an open input mic that sums to the master. Dont’ know what else can be happening.

Hi @JoanH,
bingo! I bypassed all pre section and everything became ok but I still have to understand exactly why because usually I tend to filter more than enhance, I’ll check it but there are a lot many tracks; anyway… Thank you so much! :pray:
You definitely have a good ‘eye’! :slight_smile:
Thank you too @MattiasNYC!
Art

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Even if you use a cut off filter, a low or high pass can introduce momentary gain and make audio peak higher. A standard filter works by changing the phase of a signal, if when that phase shift is done, the resulting part of the wave is closer to the peak than pre filter, you will see a spike in gain (just as if the phase shift causes the wave to end up on a lower part of the wave, you will see reduction). It’s counter intuitive, but just adding a filter will not necessarily give you lower peak levels, and could in fact give you higher peak levels for short periods of the wave. It’s only usually a db or two difference, but can add up if using a lot of filters and they are set a certain way that causes it to add up.

Just so you are aware. :wink:

Hi @DaftFader,
thank you very much for this hint! I didn’t know this and this definitely a thing to be aware of and to check during mixing stage!
Best wishes,
Art

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