With a plug in chain ending with the UAD Precision Limiter set to a hard ceiling, the meters on the Master Section are consistently hitting peaks on that left that are about .5 db above the real stream, and peaks that are a little less high on the right. The Precision Limiter’s meters are displaying the correct hard ceiling, and I have checked the digital output of the workstation by plugging it into an external meter (my DM2000, after clocking to the incoming digital stream), and these levels match those of the Precision Limiter.
When the Steinberg Brickwall Limiter is placed in the chain instead of the Precision Limiter, the Master Section meters work correctly.
It is obvious that a half db metering error during mastering is unacceptable. I don’t know why this is occurring.
I did not check the big level meters to see if they matched, but will do so tomorrow to give more info to the process.
The only other time I used the UAD Precision Limiter was with WL6 in an XP computer. My memory is that it did not create this problem at that time.
I think the reason is this one: the “True Peak” option is activated for the Master Section:
Do you know what true peaks are?
Disable the option and you will see a difference.
I would be curious to know more about true peaks and how they are handled in Wavelab. I have often wondered why my limiter ceiling is set to -0.2 but sometimes I see the meter reading slightly louder.
I do find it hard to believe, however, that a full half db discrepancy would be resulting from this.
Please educate us on “true peaks” in Wavelab, Phillipe.
I have been backing my absolute limits down some in recent years on the theory that errors and overshoots can create distortion in converters for various playback formats…especially CD.
I will be going into the office today, so will test disabling this option and report back. It is interesting to me that the Steinberg Brickwall limiter does not exhibit the same behavior inside this situation.
I do find it hard to believe, however, that a full half db discrepancy would be resulting from this.
It could be more than that. +1dB is not usuall.
It is interesting to me that the Steinberg Brickwall limiter does not exhibit the same behavior inside this situation.
This is actually an option, see this option you can toggle on or off:
Please educate us on “true peaks” in Wavelab, Phillipe.
Well, I would suggest that you turn first to the WaveLab documentation.
Then the web is full of references. eg. google for “audio True Peaks”.
And if you still have questions, please ask me.
From the manual: “When a digital signal is converted to an analog signal, the EBU R-128 recommends measuring an estimation of the real peaks, rather than relying on digital peaks, to avoid clipping and distortion. This is accomplished by over-sampling the signal 4 times and retaining the peak values.” ‘Intersample clipping’ is another term used often.
I have kept the Steinberg Brickwall Limiter “Intersample Distortion” option checked every time I used it for just this reason, so it is clear that it is working, at least according to Wavelab’s True Peak detection, which appears to be designed to sense potential intersample conversion distortion.
Are the Master section meters looking at True Peak distortion after the dithering? Since the always-on True Peak readings in the Loudness Meter seem to reflect the same amount of True Peak level, and since the overall meters SHOULD appear after dithering, I would assume this is true…but would like verification.
If you can verify this for either of the meters, than this function is perfect now that I understand its place and control within the program.
Clicking the metering button next to the dither with the True Peak engaged on the master results in a markedly different set of peaks, especially on the right side (lower), than without the button engaged, which I guess might be expected.
The confusing factor is that now the Level Meters (with True Peak selected) have a fairly different set of results on the right side, but in the opposite direction (higher). Interesting.
You are saying that clicking the meter button next to dithering in the Master Section has the same effect on the Level Meters that it does on the Master Section meters?..in other words, this is a universal meter function switch?
You are saying that clicking the meter button next to dithering in the Master Section has the same effect on the Level Meters that it does on the Master Section meters?
No. I only spoke about the Master Section meter.
The independent meters are always fully “after” the Master Section.
So, to reiterate, the Level Meters (and Loudness Meters) will always display post-dithering metering if dithering is in place?..even if the meters button beside the dithering window is not clicked?
I just want to be absolutely clear about what I am seeing in any meter display. Your comment from a couple of replies above this one confused me because I thought you were talking about using an option to get the Level Meters to see dithering…I guess we were miscommunicating.
The signal flow list on p.239 in the manual gives an overview of what happens where, though it could be better. Independent meters are always after the dithering slot, and Master section meters can be either before or after.
So, to reiterate, the Level Meters (and Loudness Meters) will always display post-dithering metering if dithering is in place?..even if the meters button beside the dithering window is not clicked?
