Master Page Question

I’m trying to create a new master page for the first time and I don’t understand some behavior I’m getting. I have several flows I’m putting together and I want to have 2 first master pages which are different that I can choose between to (for each flow). I created a new master page with “custom” and copied from the original first page. However, when I edit it, it changes the original first master page as well (and everything in the project). When I go back edit the original first page, it also changes the new one too. Its like the new master page is linked to the old one. Is it supposed to do this? How can I get what I want?

Yes, if you start from a masterpage and modify it, they will be linked.
Start from scratch with your new masterpage and you should not experience this kind of problem!

Really? I have to re-create the original master page from scratch? What’s the point of being able to copy if all I’m really doing is editing the original? This doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.

You have to start from scratch any text frame that you do not want linked to the original. At first it seems strange but actually it can save time (to have those linked frames)
So in your case, I don’t know how many frames that makes…

Though it is a rare occurrence, Marc’s not quite right here: it is true that when you are editing the left-hand and right-hand pages of the First and Default pages in a master page set – either one you have created based on one of the defaults, or one of the default ones – the contents of the text frames on the left- and right-hand pages are linked unless you delete and recreate the text frames.

However, when you create a brand new master page set, any edits you make to any of the pages in that master page set will not affect the pages in another master page set: they are completely independent.

If you, pxm, are encountering something different, I suggest you attach your project here (zip it up first) with details of how to reproduce the problem, and I’ll be very happy to take a look for you.

I take this to mean that the OP created a master page “based on” the default first page.

In this instance, Dorico links the frames on this page to the frames on the original first master page.

My belief is that Daniel is right and that also Marc is right, despite saying different things. This is not quantum mechanics; this is two people talking about two different scenarios.

I am wondering if the OP is confused by the “Copy Page Layout” terminology at the top of the Page Editor, perhaps thinking this will copy frames from one Master Page to the Custom Master Page, instead of insuring right and left pages are identical.

I think I was just confused about what is and isn’t linked. I attempted the same thing with an empty project and it did the same thing, so its clearly what Dorico is designed to do. I did indeed create a “custom” page using “based on first page”. I see now that only the text boxes seem to be linked between the original and new one, and maybe I can see times when one might want this behavior.

I tried creating a new master page set and they are completely independent as Daniel says, but it seems I can only use one in a project?

So, if I want 2 master pages that are slightly different, I can copy an original but I’ll need to delete and re-create the text boxes in the new one that I don’t want linked.

I didn’t see anything in the manual about this, but maybe I missed it.

Thanks Pianoleo,
You understand both Daniel and me :wink:
I think I was not clear enough, that’s the problem when I try to help from my bed…
Daniel, the fact that frames are somewhat linked when they come from an existing masterpage (as Pianoleo says, “based on an existing masterpage”) is something I learned from an excellent videofrom Anthony Hughes about creating masterpages. It is certainly not intuitive a behavior, but can still be useful — if you know it’s there!

Dear pxm,

I think it’s an undocumented “feature” (or annoyance!), but perhaps there are times where certain things being linked is desirable. What I have come to realize is that the text boxes do indeed update to the most recent change that has been made. Caveat emptor… when creating a new Master Page that is “based on”, anything that you want different in a text box, you will need to delete and recreate the text box the info flows into (as in flow title tokens, text etc.).

I am still wondering if this is the correct behavior as set up by the developers. Why have the possibility of basing a new page on an existing page for the purposes of customizing the new page if the new customization changes the source page? It seems contradictory to me. We are creating a custom page based on another. Editing said custom page implies you are free to change things with this new independent page. Or any content that comes from the original based-on page should be locked and greyed out, allowing the user to delete if wanted, but not change (because changing it will change it elsewhere)!

Alternatively, after edited content in the new page occurs it would be nice to have a dialog box come up asking the user if they would like the proposed change (new token, different text, etc.) to also change the original “based-on” page - “yes” or “no”. If “yes”, no problem, the user has been warned. If “no”, then the program could unlink the two.

+1 for optimizing the User Interface here to make clear that something is linked.

I have to admit I didn’t know that either.

Anthony Hughes explicitly says so in a video… I’ll try to find it and post it here;-) (or maybe it is John Barron… well, I do not remember!)