Master page question

I did a search of the forum and did not find these questions asked. So please forgive me if they have been asked before and I missed them.

Back story:

I am redoing a book we published 100% in Sib. Since I have given up on that software 100%, I am rebuilding the entire book from scratch in Dorico. This book has several lessons (2 pages each) and several exercises per page/lesson, along with a brief textual explanation at the beginning of each lesson. There a few musical graphics, but something not too terribly tough to manage.

I create a new custom layout titled “Book Form”. I then switch to Book Form, it looks identical to Full Score as it has the default master page sets applied. I create a new master page set called “Blank for book”. All it has are page numbers and copyright information at the bottom of the page. I select on the page one, and insert a master page change to “Blank for book”. All of the other pages disappear and I see only 1 page with with this new master page applied. Good so far. I add about 40-ish pages since the book is about 40 pages long. Each page appears with red triangle (override present). I create another master page “Lesson Start”, similar to the “Blank for Book”, but this one has a ‘title’ area at the top.

I move to page 4 (first page where music starts, the beginning pages are mostly text I will fill in later). I add the master page change to “lesson start”. It doesn’t show up. I got to remove page overrides (thinking this is what is preventing the change from being seen), and all of the subsequent pages are now missing. I don’t want to add page by page (but if I must, then I must). I realize that I’ll need a “lesson continuation” master page (similar to the default, minimal text etc.). But it got me thinking…


Questions:

1 - How can I create a “lesson start” and “lesson continuation” and have Dorico use those 2 sets in the same manner that it uses “First” and “Default”?
2 - Why is it when I add blank pages, they all show up with overrides, and then why does removing the override erase all of the pages that were added?
3 - Why does it seem that despite “applying a new master change” that one must then undo the already existent overrides (especially ones on a blank page)? Doesn’t the “apply new master change” take into account that you want to override what’s currently there?

There was a lot more I wanted to ask, but setting up some of this background has made me forget some of the other questions. As I get back to work, and the questions come back up, I will write more of the questions.

Robby

Robby, perhaps I am misunderstanding, but I was confused when you said “I add about 40-ish pages since the book is about 40 pages long.” Dorico will add pages automatically as necessary to fit all of your music. I believe you just need to add pages for the Blank ones, then at the start of music, add a page with the Master First, then Default to follow. When you come to another lesson, insert a master page change to reflect the “Lesson Start” page, then another change for the music portion, etc.

The way I understand it, you don’t really add a lot of pages in Dorico - you simply tell it where to have page overrides or where the music starts and tell it which Master Page to use.

This scenario would benefit from having a video conference with an expert on page layouts with a focus on different sections like a lesson book. That way both people could view each other’s screen and hopefully come up with a solution for your project.

If it’s at all appropriate, or helpful, here is a link to a very simple lesson book mock up I did that I believe incorporates different sections with some explanatory text that may be helpful to see the process.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hwvncp8r48a4va6/Simple%20Lesson%20Book%20Example.dorico?dl=0

Dear Robby,
Isn’t the last hangout (last wednesday) with John Barron exactly the kind of information you would need ?

1 - How can I create a “lesson start” and “lesson continuation” and have Dorico use those 2 sets in the same manner that it uses “First” and "Default”?

It should be as simple as specifying the ‘First’ or ‘Default’ option when you create each new master page. But I would suggest you create your own new master page set and simply edit the ‘First’ and ‘Default’ pages in there.

2 - Why is it when I add blank pages, they all show up with overrides, and then why does removing the override erase all of the pages that were added?

Any page you add is, by definition, an override because Dorico adds pages as needed.

3 - Why does it seem that despite “applying a new master change” that one must then undo the already existent overrides (especially ones on a blank page)? Doesn’t the “apply new master change” take into account that you want to override what’s currently there?

Sometimes you would want the overrides to be removed, sometimes you would not. We choose not to remove them because it may not be what you want, and it’s easy enough to remove them yourself. Better that you as the user choose to do something than have Dorico always do it when it would sometimes not be welcome.

Thanks Daniel!!! I will look into this, and post more questions as they come up. The only thing I disagree with in your statements, or disagree with Dorico’s handling of things, is if I create 40 blank pages and try to insert a master page change, a few times it deleted all of the subsequent pages. I don’t be believe that is behavior that would be wanted. Just my thought. Creating too many pages and needing to delete some, yes.

@MarcLarcher: It had some, but not all of the information I need. Or maybe I am seeing part of this problem from the wrong direction. I will re-watch the Discover Dorico and related videos to see if I am missing something.

@MusicMaven: Thanks for the file. I see what you did. And I believe this book might be a little different. This book will have music examples, text, music examples, text, for part of it. Therefore I believe I need to draw each music frame and text frame independently on the page, and fill them in as appropriate. Like I said to Marc… let me re-watch some videos to see if I am missing something in my thought process, or if I am looking at the whole thing backwards. It has happened before.

Robby

Robby, be careful when doing page additions or overrides with the choices “this page only” or “from this page on” (not sure of exact wording as I’m not in front of Dorico at the moment). It could be that you’ve affected other pages inadvertently depending on those selections.

I might have done something like that… I am being very careful as to what I choose.

Robby