Merged EuCon automation data finally working?!

NB - thread title amended to reflect current status (scroll further down this page). Original thread titled Double automation data with EuCon [REPRODUCIBLE STEPS]


I’m using the Euphonix, via quick controls, to record automation data. I’ve already done a pass of CC1 with the keyboard’s modwheel, now I want to edit this using the Euphonix.

Initially the Euphonix doesn’t pick up the cc1 data, but touching the fader seems to wake it up. So I record some data, and this is displayed on the automation lane as I record. However, this is not overwriting existing data - it is ADDING to it. When the record is finished, I now have two sets of data, one on top of the other! How is this possible?

My Automation panel settings are touch mode, show Used Only. The punch out doesn’t seem to make any difference.

Grateful for any help - thanks.

EDIT - it’s actually worse than I thought. I’ve tried to remove all cc1 automation data, and it appears to be impossible. Both “remove parameter” and “remove all CC1 automation parameter” have no effect - the data is always there. I’ve tried the range tool and delete, but nope - it just sits there. Cubase 6.0.5.

EDIT 2 - even muting the automation lane has no effect - the data is still active. Something seriously screwy here. First thing I’ve done on my new template, and I’m totally stuck.

EDIT 3 - 2nd Feb 2012 - I’ve been able to partially make it work. In Midi / CC Automation Setup, select CC1 record to AUTOMATION DATA. This will write modwheel data as automation, not the usual midi data, and the Euphonix will pick it up. However, if you select this to MIDI PART, it still treats the two sources as two sets of data - this is currently unresolved.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but can this control surface do motorized CC data? I’m looking for a motorized surface that can read/write CC data.

Yes it can via Quick Controls. BUT - as per the OP, currently it is very much not working correctly, and I’m going to abandon Cubase until this issue is resolved as it’s currently unworkable.

I discovered you can sometimes delete the existing data from the key edit (piano roll) screen. But it still won’t get rid of all of what’s there. Overwriting data still adds to existing data, resulting in displays like this:
Double CC data.PNG
I’ve tried everything I can think of - removing parameters, deleting from ranges, deleting in the piano roll - NOTHING gets rid of this 2nd set of cc data. This is the first thing I’ve recorded on the new template, I’ll be heavily using cc automation in my work, and it’s broken seemingly beyond repair.

OK, some reproducible steps to part of the fault:

Open blank project
Insert VST with cc1 control enabled
Record a note and ride the modwheel
Go to quick controls with EuCon connected, and select cc1
Eucon does not pick up already recorded cc1 data
Enable read and write, now record new data with the Euphonix
2 sets of automation data visible in the automation lane.

On this blank project, I am able to delete the existing data recorded with the modwheel in the key editor, and delete the data recorded with the Euphonix using Remove Parameter. However on a larger project, this has proved impossible, and I am unable to remove one set of data by any method.

Cubase obviously needs to treat all CC1 data as one.

…to add some more detail. In theory this should be resolvable with the automation merge mode, and this is the root of the problem. No matter which mode the merge is in, it always treats the cc1 data from two sources as two sets of data. So, to me, all the options are useless.

It’s really simple what is needed - a mode where cc1 is cc1, and that’s that. If I write cc1 from the modwheel, I can see it in the automation lane. So when I go to the Euphonix, I just need a mode that when I touch the fader, overwrites the existing data from that point (like regular automation in other words). At the moment, it seems that Cubase cannot do this, so this functionality is crippled.

To me this is a bug - grateful if someone from Steinberg could confirm, and add a new automation merge mode that handles all cc data on a single parameter as a single data set.

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Boo. Someone answer this poor fellow.

What about on thr transport. Midi record mode replace/overwrite? Thats how i replace my data, but im not on EuCon

Would you recommend this as a control surface in general? I’m considering buying one despite the issues you mention. it seems to be one of the best in its price range and It’s the only one with assignable soft keys.

Hello noiseboyuk,

We will have a look at the problem! :slight_smile:
What kind of Euphonix device are you using? McMix? McControl? or something bigger?

Ah ha! Thank you v much crohde!

I’m using an McMix, latest versions of all drivers and adapters.

Aptmusic - I just double checked, the midi mode makes no difference.

In general I really like the Euphonix, but with reservations. So far the integration with any product hasn’t been all it can be - Cubase is one of the few DAWs that can control midi CC with it because it integrates with the Quick Controls, but there are a host of problems with it still. Even though its a few years old, it still feels like it has a long way to go before it fulfils its potential.

The fader caps work loose with the hysterically fast fader switching. The good news is that the display is good and I love the feel of the faders. If you stick to just the basics, it does the job great, but you don’t have to dig very far before you get some frustrations.

It sorta feels like the only game in town for small post-production rigs in particular, I hope they keep developing the product integration.

So at its current state, can you get the fader to motorize based on CC messages? (CC1, CC11, etc?)

It’s fine when recording / replaying its own data via the quick controls. It won’t update any new name you give the quick control though.

The problem comes with cc data from more than one source, as in the OP. Also Quick Controls themselves are in dire need of an overhaul - you can’t cut and paste, it doesn’t even copy them on duplicate track, if you want to copy them you have to do so as a track template, then individually change midi detination, midi channel, name, colour etc etc for every track. Urgh.

Hi there,

I just talked to our EuCon specialist inhouse and he said this is not a problem from the EuCon device/protocol but from Cubase. We will do more investigation on this topic! :slight_smile:

Hi noiseboyuk,

My collegue just found out what the problem was. It is no bug. The CC1 data you edited inside the key editor and the automation data via Quick Controls are two different things. You can have both. You can set this behavior up under the menu MIDI-> CC Automation Setup.
Please refer to the user manual on how to configure this.

Thanks Carlos - I tried the CC Automation setup before via the track header, but could never make it treat it as a single source. I have had another play, and I have found one mode that works, but another that should work I think doesn’t.

If I set cc1 record destination to be MIDI PART, messages from the Euphonix are still treated as Automation data - do you agree? This would be my preferred solution and I can’t make it work, the data is always treated as 2 sources. However, I’ve just discovered that it DOES work if you select everything to AUTOMATION DATA - the modwheel data is then recorded in the automation lane, and I can drop in correctly in REPLACE mode.

I’d be grateful if you could confirm that setting to MIDI PART does not work on CC data from the Eucon / Quick Controls - many thanks.

So can you take the type of data that DOES work, edit that data with the pencil and the EuCon fader will motorize to it? And you’re saying it has to be a quick control and not a CC in the midi part?

I just tried to reproduce your issue using an MC Control on my PC
Everthing works without issue.
“Eucon does not pick up already recorded cc1 data” - Yes it does
“Enable read and write, now record new data with the Euphonix
2 sets of automation data visible in the automation lane.”
Only one set of automation Data here, original automation is overwritten
Good luck.