MIDI CC data and note hangs

Cubase
1

Hi,

I’ve been getting a lot of note hangs in CP8 when I am playing live and using controllers like mod wheel and expression pedal. This problem has been there in 8.0.20, and I am seeing this in 8.0.30 also (x64). (I only started using CP8 since 8.0.20.)

My system is W7 Pro SP1 x64. The controller data come from M-Audio Axiom used as a class compliant USB device. I play the keys on my Privia PX-150 (also USB, class compliant), and use mod wheel and expression pedal on Axiom.

When I am not using any CC data, I never get any note hangs.

I have been using the same MIDI setup for the past few years with C6, and I never had this problem. This problem is bad enough in CP8 that I had to assign the “reset MIDI” key command for the first time.

Anyone else who play in CC data at the same time with keyboard parts experiencing this?

2

Hi,

I would recommend to download some 3rd party software (for example MIDI-OX for Windows or MIDI Monitor for Mac) for incoming MIDI data analyses.

Then I would recommend to test, which data is sent from the hardware. Then we could know, if it’s on the HW or SW side.

If you do this, make sure, you are using exactly the same MIDI driver in the testing application, you are using in Cubase.

3

Hi Martin,

I’ve never seen this happen with C6 in the entire 4 years I’ve worked with it on over a thousand pieces of music. I have never seen this with Cantabile, standalone Kontakt, or standalone EW Play, either. I don’t think 3rd party MIDI monitor would help, because the problem is in Cubase Pro 8 only.

I think CP8 is misfiring the note off messages when there are CC data stream going on. I get this when i am just playing without recording, so it’s the problem with the MIDI thru. I have not seen note hanging while recording, or playing back recorded performances, oddly enough. I only work with VSTi at the moment.

4

Hi,

In this case, could you just insert MIDI Monitor plug-in on the MIDI track and try to watch, what’s going on? Maybe, you will get some message here.

5

I said :

  1. I have no such issues with Cubase 6, standalone Kontakt/MachFive/EW Play, Cantabile.

  2. I have not experienced it while recording or playing back (Maybe I have been lucky. I don’t know.).

My thinking here is, if the above are true, then the problem is in how Cubase Pro 8 handles the MIDI, rather than the incoming MIDI signals.

The problem happens rather randomly, but frequent enough to bother me.

6

Yes, I understand. Therefore, I would recommend to insert the MIDI Monitor plug-in to the MIDI track in Cubase 8, to know, what’s going on here, in Cubase 8 and the MIDI track.

7

I have a theory :

MIDI is a serial data protocol. I have 2 MIDI devices here, sending MIDI messages at the same time in parallel. When the MIDI is being recorded, or played back, the incoming messages are merged properly into a serial stream according to the MIDI specification. When it is just passing through MIDI, however, CP8 could be passing incoming MIDI in parallel without merged in accordance with the MIDI spec, and therefore, coinciding messages are not interpreted properly by the recipient plugins.

I think that would make sense.

8

Cubase 8 cannot passing incommind MIDI data in parallel, because the data comes to Cubase in serial anyway. So it doesn’t make any sense.

You said, it’s not always. How often, do you have this issue? How long do you have to play, to get into it?

9

Well, if what I have said above is in the ballpark, I should never get any note hangs while just playing M-Audio Axiom only. In any case, it is within how Cubase 8 handles the incoming data. All I know is that this is happening only in Cubase Pro 8. USB of course passes the serial data stream, but I have 2 active ports in my scenario, and how they are being handled is up to CP8.

MIDI monitor will not help with this problem because it will not show the timings of data played in live. Note on/off, modulation, expression data are all I see without timing info. Recording and playback are no problem as I have said.

The frequency is hard to quantify, as I am sure it is performance dependent. Could be once in 5 - 10 minutes, or after a couple of measures.

10

I can think of a scenario of what is happening. Midi specs specify running mode. It is a mode when where there is only one type of data send, the header is not sent again only the value. It halves the data needed. If 2 of those streams are merged unintelligently errors will occur. since note off data can be interpreted as controller data then. What you could try is merge the midi data before entering the computer with a merger and see if that solves it.

I can try to replicate the error here and if yes see if C6 behaves differently. I suspect not cause I have not seen the error yet using my breath controller which spews out large amounts of controller data.

11

But there are two devices, i.e. two different MIDI ports. Data from different MIDI ports are not mixed up in the MIDI specification.

12

But they are mixed in cubases through routine…

13

Do you mean, when “All MIDI Inputs” is selected…?

14

Yes that is what a meant. And I could not replicate the error here. Tried with a breath controller on VL1m and Oxygen 8 with my master keyboard all on different (3) midi inputs.

15

I also cannot reproduce it with various different MIDI Input devices.

16

Just a thought, I have usually hung notes when I switch to another midi track, while I have a key pressed on my midi controller. The note receives the Note ON command, but not the Note OFF command. Something you may have reproduced while playing and switching track with a CC command?