MIDI Chain

I am searching for a method to send midi from a midi track into an other midi track! The goal is, to split my midi signal to several instruments (more than six!) and manipulate them inividually. “Duplicate” isn’t doin’ the trick, because i want to change some notes and finters just on one track! Ideas, everyone??

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Well sending from one track to another is just a routing and if you need to edit one track without the other being affected that can’t work.

To send midi to multiple instrument tracks or hardware outs (not midi tracks) is possible from the inspector midi sends.

If you need to edit individually then you need to make copies of the midi part - By default this is probably be a shared copy, but you can use the modifier when copying (alt I think) or convert to real copy afterwards.

Virtual MIDI port…
On Windows I’ve been using the free loopMIDI driver.

Macs have the ability to create virtual ports within the OS Audio MIDI Control panel.

If you want to send MIDI to another track, AND to a MIDI Device or VSTi plugin at the same time…

You’ll need your MIDI parts on a MIDI track.
MIDI tracks offer up to 4 ‘MIDI Sends’, so it’s possible to send the data to multiple outputs at the same time.

Here I'm sending MIDI to my Fantom XR, AND to a virtual port (loop1).

I could set up another track that gets input from the virtual port. It could be a MIDI track, or an Instrument track. In this case I'll make it an Instrument Track hosting a Voltage synth sound in Sonic.

Please be careful with your track INPUTS when using virtual ports. If they are set to ALL MIDI INPUTS, it's possible to end up with feedback situations depending on what tracks you have ARMED at a given moment.

image

So remember…before you ARM a track for monitoring/recording, you might want to get in a habit of avoiding the ‘ALL MIDI Inputs’ option if you have a virtual ports active.

Thank you very much, Brian for your help. This is the perfect solution. It is a shame, that you have to “leave” Cubase for a simple thing like that! Would be a far more useful implementation than new colours for SuperVision :wink:

I agree, and I’ve often wondered the same thing! People have been asking for the ability since the 1980s! As far as I can remember, Steinberg has never allowed it natively in any of their sequencers. Come to think of it, I don’t remember seeing in stuff like Notator/Logic/MT Pro/Bars&Pipes either, yet I well remember users begging for it all these decades.

There are valid technical reasons software engineers avoid building in MIDI loopback for physical MIDI ports.

I can’t say for sure, but I suspect there might be written rules buried deep in the MIDI association’s protocol sheets concerning MIDI loopback (as in, don’t do it). Some of the older devices can get really messed up to the degree one has to reboot the thing, if you accidentally create an endless loop situation.

So, if we want it, we simply have to find our own means to ‘break the protocol rules’.

Loopback drivers can and usually do add some degree of latency to the setup. Sometimes it’s acceptable and hardly noticeable, but quite a few users out there will put EVERYTHING they do on advanced signal monitors and scream bloody murder about it.

So, the ‘proper way’ to do it is to simply clone the track, and point each copy where it needs to be pointed.

Years ago all the Steinberg sequencers offered something many of us users called ghost tracks (Steinberg calls it Shared Events now). Essentially a ghost track was simply a special track type that points to the same sequence patterns/parts/events as the original track. If you edited the MIDI data in either copy, they both took on the same edits. They were super easy to add to a project, and could yield the same effect as routing the output of one track to the input of another.

You can still make these ‘ghost tracks’ in Cubase today, but it’s no longer as easy or intuitive as it used to be decades ago.

Accomplishing this feat in modern Cubase involves using something called Shared Copies.

The Proper Way To Achieve MIDI Loop-Like effects in Cubase

Making a 'Ghost Track'

I’ll Select all the events on this Synth bass track by right clicking it and choosing ‘select all events’.

I’ll zoom my project way out so I can see all the way to the end.

Then I’ll go to Edit/Functions/Repeat…


and get this box…

I make sure that Shared Copies box is ticked. I only want one copy that I’ll move to a new track, so I set that and click OK.

Now I see new copies of those track events appended to the end, and they are already ‘selected’ for me.

Make a new track , and drag the duplicate event into it. Note, you must ‘drag it’ to the new track. If you attempt to ‘copy/cut/paste’ it, then it will become an actual copy.

I’ve changed the colors a bit to remind me. The purple events involve ‘shared data’. If edit these purple events in either track, the changes will apply to both.

I can now point my ‘ghost track’ to a different synth and MIDI channel.

It might also be of advantage to group the tracks together in a folder of their own. So I can hold ctrl, select them both, right click, move to a new folder, and name/color it as I like…

Grouping these together can provide a number advantages as I work with the tracks later. I can save some screen space when it’s folded. I can also mute/solo/arm both of the tracks in one click. And more…

What am I missing here? …how is that allowing this?

and manipulate them inividually.

Each track has a complete insert slate to work with.

He can take the same source material, and pipe it through different tracks to be processed before it’s ‘recorded in real time’ or simply ARMED to be sent to an instrument.

It’s true that you can somewhat achieve this in many cases on MIDI tracks with a MIDI send, but that has far more limits than having a dedicated through track for more advanced routing/processing capabilities.

I think I understand what he’s after. It’s a common request from people who have done a lot more ‘live, on stage’ keyboard work.

Sometimes your initial input track will be kept ‘empty’, and simply used for initial sets of MIDI Modifiers/inserts before passing into tracks with yet more modifiers/insert-effects that you do intend to route onto other instruments (and/or record).

In live situations, sending output from one track into the input of other tracks can lead to all sorts of real time ‘transformation/echo/processing’ benefits.

Arming different combinations of MIDI tracks (even if they are ‘empty’ tracks) grouped up into folders can be a quick way to change your entire controller situation. Kind of like organ stops…

Ahh…ok…as one of the things he specified was:

It sounded to me like he would need separate source tracks.

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I saw that too…but I got the gist of ‘send the output of one track to the input of another’, and ran with it.

There can be good reasons to do it.
There can be good reasons to avoid doing it.

Hopefully he knows how now and can find his own road :slight_smile:

Dear friends. Thank you for your answers, and as I said, I have found my solution with external MIDI loops. To clarify what I want: I play a MIDI track “live” in the studio that goes to several instruments (internal or external doesn’t matter for now). Let’s say I want to play violins and horns under a piano. If I want to edit notes, I want to do that in ONE track, including the controller data. But now I want to compress the piano’s velocity data afterwards, which I would best do with a MIDI compressor on the piano track. And so on. As you can see, it’s primarily about editing MIDI data for a single instrument that functions as part of an overall sound. That’s just the way I work. Thanks again for your help!

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I’m kind of late to the party but just wanted to add: There is another way of sending midi from track to track if you own Kontakt by Native Instruments. Inside Kontakt there is an option to “send Midi to the outside world” and if selected, that Kontakt Instrument Track is available in the Midi Input section for any other instrument track inside Cubase.
Just wanted to let you know, ofc you don’t have to change anything now that you found something that works already.

I forgot that there’s a way to make shared parts without going through all of the Repeat (Ctrl K) steps I’d outlined above.

Hold Ctrl/Alt/Shift and drag a part to a new track. You get a ‘shared’ copy this way.