Mix Snapshot no audio after switching

Nuendo
1

I just made the switch from Protools to Nuendo and I’m really happy I did. Took me some time to figure out Nuendo, but I think I got it.

I’ve had one problem with mixdown having no audio, but I found out that having multiple sources in the direct routing is not working with mixdown so I’ve changed my template to cover that.

When doing cliënt mixes I always create a full mix, A mix with leadvocal on 70% and an acapella version. I try to use mix snapshots for that but strangely when creating a new snapshot everything works fine. But when I switch to my previous snapshot suddenly the audio stops. After closing and reopening the project the audio is back.

My setup is fairly simple.

I have audiotracks all routed to individual busses (drums, bass, etc)
Those busses are routed to one mix bus where I have my mastering plugins which is routed to the main out (not connected because I’m using Control Room). When I switch snapshots the audio is still routed to the individual busses, but not to the mixbus anymore, although the routing is still intact.

Does anyone knows what I do wrong ?

Thanks

Peter

2

I reported this to Steinberg a couple of years ago, but nothing happened.

I feel your pain every day.
Andrew

3

What do you mean by that? I use direct routing all the time “with mixdown” to multiple mixes, submixes and stems all exported simultaneously.

How, specifically, do you create those two other mixes? What is it that the snapshot changes that creates the “70%” and acapella versions?

Just trying to figure out if there is a different way for you to do this rather than wait for the problem to be solved.

4

When I do a mix down with multiple connections in direct routing the exported file has no audio. When I have only one connection it’s fine.

With the snapshots I only change the volume of the lead vocal group. So nothing really special. Strange thing is when I close and reopen the project the audio is back

5

Something is likely wrong in how you set it up then. When you right click on the section in the mixer that says “Direct” you should see this:

image
image502×381 19.4 KB

Make sure “summing mode” is selected. If it is selected all outputs will output signal simultaneously. If you do not select it only one output will be active at one time.

Like I said, I export mixes, submixes and stems all at once every day, so if it isn’t working for you it isn’t Nuendo that’s the problem, it’s your routing.

In that case you have other options that I think will make it easier for you.

One option is to just copy-paste the entire song to a later point in the timeline, adjust levels, create a cycle marker, and then you can export all versions in one go.

Another option is to create a VCA track and connect the “lead vocal group” to that VCA fader. Make sure there are automation points on both the VCA and group. Then write automation on the VCA so that the result is what you want (lead group at 70%). When you want the vocal up version just make sure the VCA is at unity (zero change) and simply turn off automation read on the VCA. The group should then just do its own thing. For the 70% vocal down version turn read back on and the group should now drop to the appropriate level. And just mute the group for the acapella version.

A third option is to create three group tracks (or output buses - I prefer output buses);

Group “Full Mix” gets everything that you currently are sending to the master output. Move the master out plugins to this group track.

Group “Vocals Down” gets exactly the same thing, but instead of using the output of the lead vocal group you can use a send, and set that send so it reaches the 70%. Again same plugins on that group.

Group “Acapella” gets the same again, minus lead vocal group.

For this option you could set up those three groups or output buses (I prefer output buses) as sources in Control Room and then you can switch between the three versions easily using a key command (for monitoring). You can also export the three simultaneously by selecting those groups in the export window.

Just some suggestions.

6

Thanks for your extended reply and I will look into this when I’m back in the studio. I’m certain that summing mode is active, so that’s not the issue. I think I have found out why it’s not working for me.

In my template I have group tracks which via direct routing (summing enabled) are routed outside to a summing mixer and the stereo output from the summing mixer to an insert switcher which can put my bettermakers, neve mbt etc in the path. The stereo return of the outboard gear comes back at an audio track called analog. The group tracks also routes to a bus called digital and comes back at an audio track called digital. I’ve made a macro so I can switch the listen states between those 2 tracks so I can listen either to the analog pad or the digital pad. As far as I have read somewhere else the listen states are not working when mixdown.
So I’ve deleted those tracks and routing and made the summing part just stereo (since analog summing alone doesn’t make such a big difference). Now I can use the outboard part just as an insert and that’s fine.

On your solution for the mixer snapshots option 3 seems interesting, but what to do when all my processing (mastering) is done on my mix bus which is routed to the control room. If I use your method I don’t think those plugins are processed, Also what to do with reverb and delay sends on the vocal channel which sends to individuel fx tracks which are summed in my fx group channel. Therefore I think the mixer snapshots are a perfect solution when it works…

Thanks

Peter

7

They are processed on the duplicated mix buses. When you duplicate the destinations but adjust vocal levels those duplicated destinations get the same plugin chain that you currently have on your “mix bus”.

You could simply create two more output buses and copy-drag the plugins over to those buses so you have exactly the same processing on all three.

The Control Room has nothing to do with this. I only mentioned it because you can use those three buses as sources in the Control Room and the signal that CR gets is the output of those output buses, after all insert processing that you added.

Like I wrote, everything that currently goes to your one mix bus would go equally to all three buses. So if you have reverb and delay FX tracks that are going into an FX Group track you would simply add the two new destinations as direct outputs on the FX Group Track.

Now, if you are saying that you are summing vocal processing with other processing and that the sum would be different when you lower the vocal source tracks that feed the FX tracks then either set up separate chains for the FX or use the VCA option. By “separate chains” I just mean you would need a separate chain for vocals up and for 70% and then send those accordingly, separately, to either also duplicated FX Group Tracks or straight to the respective mix buses.

I need a bit more coffee to think through all the options, but let’s just say that those of us in post have to do a ton of parallel exports at once, so if we can do it you music guys probably can as well. Really the only thing I can see being problematic is dynamic processing on a summed signal. But just for reference; I’ve exported a full mix, mix minus narration, music & effects, music only, fx only, dialog only, narration only, for both original language and a Spanish dub, for both all stereo and all surround, censored and uncensored, at the same time with all processing intact and correct. So I’m pretty sure you can get it done…

1 Like
8

Dear Mattias,

So many thanks for your very clear explanation on this. I really appreciate it.
I’m gonna check my template and see what I can do to perfect this with minimal effort. Although I’m really glad I’ve switched from ProTools. Nuendo works much better for me and with the Metagrid app you can automate so much…

Thanks

Peter