I have addressed this issue before, but the solution was to use cautionary key signatures which I do not want to do. I really feel this may be a bug in DORICO. I would like to know what the developers think. Here is the issue:
Here are the chords to the first 12 bars of the popular jazz standard ‘I Can’t Give You Anything But Love’. The song is in the key of F. I like to show a modulation to the key of Bb starting at bar nine:
Now let’s transpose the song to the key of G and at bar nine the song modulates into the key of C as indicated by the signpost BUT there is NO F natural to turn off the F sharp since the prior key is in G:
On a minor note, I know I can turn off SIGNPOSTS as it is blocking my chords but I thought it would be convenient to have on the SIGNPOST a handle to temporarily drag it out of the way with a reset button to put it back to the regular place.
Please let me know your thoughts on this. Again I do not want to be forced to use cautionary key signatures if I do not have to. I wish DORICO would put in whatever naturals are needed to effectively turn off the sharps or flats from the prior key signature at the BEGINNING of a stave.
That is what I am trying to avoid. I do not want to use cautionary key signatures. Why isn’t DORICO putting in an F natural at the BEGINNING of a stave? DORICO DOES put in the F natural if the key modulation is NOT at the beginning of the stave and I do not have to use cautionary key signatures. Please see my screenshots which I uploaded. If I made a lead sheet that NEVER modulated into the key of C at the beginning of a stave I would not need cautionary key signatures.
Ok, that is what I wanted to know. You are a Steinberg associate so you are confirming what I suspected. Ok, so I will have to use a cautionary in the case of modulating to C major if the modulation starts at the BEGINNING of a stave. Thanks for clarifying.
– I didn’t build this because I think it looks nice, but simply because Markkapon wanted it that way.
– We’re not Steinberg employees; that’s just DSpreadbury (with the Steinberg logo in his avatar)
In this example, because no cautionary key signature is used, a musician playing the melody will not know that a modulation to the key of C took place starting at bar 5. At best the musician may very well question it.
Since the key of C has no sharps and no flats we have no choice but to use a cautionary key signature so the musician knows that a key modulation to the key of C starts at bar 5 as in this example.
DORICO DEVELOPERS: Do you feel that the proof reading function should warn us about a situation like this? If we modulated to any other key except C the flats or sharps would show up at the beginning of the stave and a cautionary key signature would not be essential. In this case the musician may get confused and play F# instead of F natural.
The whole reason cautionaries are at the end of a stave is to warn you before you jump to the next stave. If you’re deliberately waiting until the start of the next stave, one could reasonably argue the cautionary is too late.
Yes, I agree. It is like a sign on the highway giving you advance notice that a reduction in the speed limit is coming up. But the point I am making is that in the case of modulating specifically to the key of C, without a cautionary key signature the musician may not know that a modulation is taking place because the key signature of C has no sharps and flats so in a sense it is an invisible key signature. I feel in this specific case a cautionary key signature is essential and I feel the DORICO proof reading should warn you about it and then you can choose to ignore it if you so choose.
I think this specific problem arises only because you are adopting the “Lead Sheet” convention to not repeat clef and key signature at the beginning of each new system.
The regular convention is to repeat the signature. The lack of a cautionary natural in system 3 is only a problem because there was no f sharp at the beginning of system 2. If the signature would be shown at each system it would be clear in system 3 that the now missing f sharp means a key change.
But still then a cautionary at the end of the preceding system would be the convention as it simply is the better place to give the player a heads up.
I understand what you are suggesting. I try to avoid cautionary key signatures and use them only when absolutely necessary which is in this case because we are modulating to the key of C. It would not be needed if we were modulating to any other key because the sharp(s) or flat(s) would indicate the key signature even if I do not repeat key signatures in every stave. I do all this this because I want to save space on the stave, otherwise my lyrics look to cramped and my only choice is to reduce the lyric font size.
Therefore my specific question which I would like the DORICO developers to answer is if I modulate to C at the beginning of the stave shouldn’t the proof reading function warn you about the lack of a cautionary key signature when the setting to repeat the key signature on every stave is disabled? My opinion is it should warn you and then you have the option to fix it or ignore the warning. If the DORICO developers agree with me I would like to see them implement that. Sooner or later I may forget to put in a cautionary key signature and I do not want to turn on cautionary key signatures for the whole project. I want to use them only when absolutely needed.
The problem I see is that you would need the “key signature of C” to have a different number of naturals depending on what the previous key signature was.
Traditionally this is “solved” by the cautionary (which, again traditionally, is placed at the end of the previous stave).
I’m sure the DORICO developers will “consider” support for unconventional notation.
The solution you are recommending which is similar to what I originally requested is fine or have the proof reading function warn you by saying something like a cautionary key signature is needed if you are modulating to the key of C at the beginning of the following stave. Then I can put in the cautionary key signature. I am just concerned I may forget to put it in. I would like the DORICO developers to let me know their thoughts about this.
I disagree. You appear to want the cautionary to be at the point the new key signature starts, rather than the previous barline (where it traditionally belongs).
There are a number of ways to “save space.”
I don’t know what your pages look like so it’s hard to comment without the possibility of being way off the mark — reducing note spacing, space size, allowing bars to flow to the next system, to name a few.
If your setup is so tight that your lyrics get too cramped by adding a courtesy key signature, maybe the system is simply too crowded.
. It looks quite odd – and uncommon – without the cautionary natural at the end of the previous system.
