I misspoke earlier when I suggested that some synths take a mono sound, double it, and flip the phase on one of them. I meant to say, “alter the phase relationship between them.” Two identical signals that are perfectly out of phase with each other will yield total silence!
(I’m surprised nobody called me on that one! 
)
If we’re talking about a stereo synth patch that sums to mono badly (which is what was mentioned earlier) then recording it onto two channels and panning it less than hard L/R will sill produce the same cancellations when summed to mono regardless.
A mono mix will sound much different than a stereo mix of the same material coming out of the same system, regardless of how we’re situated when we hear it. I think the point is to just make sure our stereo mixes don’t sound totally terrible in situations where we’re either predominantly hearing sound from one speaker, or our distance from the source (grocery store, bars, etc.) negates our perception of left-center-right positioning
Funny you should say that but it crossed my mind but I was going to keep out of this one, too late now
I tend to agree with this, that’s why I suggested running your stereo synth channels through a M-S plugin – there’s a plethora of free ones out there, and it will eliminate the issue (and still sound about the same in stereo). I think it’d be nice if Cubendo had a native plugin that did this
But I guess it is not actually due to bad mono summing through phase cancellations but due to fact that other instruments/ signals closer to center would be louder when summed to mono burying signals panned close to extremes.
braunie
If we take a simple example of two similar sounds, one panned hard left and one panned to virtual centre. to have the sound balanced for equal volume the centre panned sound will have to be approx 3dB less then the left panned sound, because the centre sound is being reproduce from two speakers and the left from only one.
When we sum the two channels to mono the centre sound will gain 3dB but the left panned sound will remain at the same level thus keeping the balance between the two sounds, as now both sound are only coming from one speaker (or virtual centre on a two speaker system)
Of course when we mix in Cubase (or whatever) this reduction in level towards virtual centre is done automatically by the pan law of the mixer.
So the relative volumes of a mix should stay reasonably similar between stereo and mono. Most of the reason it doesn’t will be due to cancellation between the same signals of the left and right channels.
as a side note, one of the many reasons I hate cloned tracks to try and bulk up a sound.
Just to clarify, Conway (that is Conway Twitty in your avatar, right Doug?), how would you use the M-S plug-in … would you use it to lower the volume of the Mid? Would that help with what my problem was, which is that when the synth L/R are summed to mono it sounds all weak and a little phasy too?
Just to clarify, Conway (that is Conway Twitty in your avatar, right Doug?), how would you use the M-S plug-in … would you use it to lower the volume of the Mid? Would that help with what my problem was, which is that when the synth L/R are summed to mono it sounds all weak and a little phasy too?
I would have thought you would be better throwing away (probably the right channel) altogether and either recreate some space with reverb/delay and or double track another left channel and pan to other side.
I believe the most popular M-S plug is Voxengo MSED. If I understand it correctly, you need to place it as an insert on a stereo track, render the track, and then insert it on the rendered track to “decode” it. Don’t take that to the bank, however
I would have thought you would be better throwing away (probably the right channel) altogether and either recreate some space with reverb/delay and or double track another left channel and pan to other side.
I’ve don the first method quite a bit; never tried the second
The horror. A nice synth, and reduced to having to do this to use it’s patches for recording.
I believe I read the Halion that came with C6 is based on the Motif sounds. I’ve not used it (I have this nice synth, you see …). What are people’s experiences in combining the L/R channels for those Halion sounds …?
I think the problem is that synth manufacturers want their patches to sound as big and impressive as possible to impress potential purchasers to buy their product without any regards to mono compatibility.
It can be quite enlightening to strip all the FX off a synth sound (if it allows you) and hear the raw patch, anyway this has been a problem for ages and the usual work around is to just use one channel.
Of course we can just ignore the problem and dam any mono compatibility if we want.
Thanks for that Split. Looks like if I use the Motif I’ll need to do some sound creation work - either alter the effects in the Motif itself, or send only one side out and do what I can to make it sound good “enough” in both stereo and in mono.
I guess I’ll take a look at the Halion product that came with C6. Does anyone know off-hand - do the voices there in general suffer from the same “let me impress you with my stereo sound (don’t mind the mono bollocks)” disease?
Thanks! 
Anyway…like Split said…Ditch mono and make it BIG !!!
You are not going to get more am radio exposure in the states if you mix it for stereo and if someone has one speaker in living room and the other in kitchen so be it…they must have other problems as well then. The point is that these people would not care anyway.
So make it big, fat and wide please 
braunie
Well, I posted all this for non-academic reasons. I sent someone to a youtube I made, and they told me it sounded kind of off. I wasn’t surprised (given my skill level), but then they went on to say they were listening through their laptop speaker (not speakers, it only had one). When I did the same I noticed how different it sounded compared to stereo.
I imagine a fair amount of people might be in the same boat, listening to music in mono because they’re at work listening through their 1-speaker laptop - but noticing that it doesn’t sound quite “right”.
But of course, you’re right … I won’t worry too much about that until that becomes the limiting factor in my making projects sound better!
Well…apArt from my trusty old transistor radio I take with me when hiking I never listen music in mono…
Agreed. You can take the mono issue too far. Still, doesn’t hurt to check
Did I say that?
Anyway you can still make a mix Big, Fat and Wide and still get good mono compatibility.
I usually just kind of don’t bother too much unless I know the result is destined for bigger things…
But then I’m not using artificial widening or huge pads and the like.