More Bread, less escargot!

First of all…hats off to those companies that have been pumping out Halion Instruments. Sound programming on that end is NOT easy so thanks!

BUUUUUUT…I hope somebody somewhere is working on more “conventional” bread and butter libraries. Guitars. Pianos. Horns. Less esoteric stuff to round out the library.

Again not complaining…but I could use some normal sounds for sure!

SpiderMix

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That’s kind of the issue with the HALion ecosystem. Full of esoteric instruments, and not enough of the stuff that people need to move off of stuff like Kontakt/Komplete entirely.

And it’s not like the esoteric stuff doesn’t exist there, and many of the instruments for HALion are ports of instruments from the Kontakt ecosystem (and cost more, in many cases).

Unless you only do Orchestral/Cinematic music, you basically have to supplement HALion/Absolute with another package (Komplete, Total Studio, etc.) which actually sees people forego HALion/Absolute entirely. Cause, the overlap is excessive in other areas (and in some cases, the HALion offerings aren’t as good).

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The problem with Kontakt is the stock library is so old and inconsistent. You literally are playing HUNDREDS of presets that are not designed to work together like you would get in a real workstation. The bloat of the library vs/quality is also lacking.

SpiderMix

The Kontakt Factory Library?

That Library that was just improved in various large areas with the release of Kontakt 7? Are you keeping up with things?

The new orchestral sounds in Factory Library 2 are new recordings from OT Berlin Orchestra Libraries (replacing legacy VSL orchestral samples). The new choir patches come from the new Choir: Omnia Library. Lots of the Percussion and other instruments have been revamped or improved, as well. KFL2 is 15GB larger than KFL.

So, what you’re saying really is… completely ignorable and bordering on nonsensical. Kontakt is not a workstation. It’s a sampler that ships with a fairly sizeable library of factory Kontent - like HALion, Structure, Independence Pro, MachFive and other comparable virtual instruments.

Secondly, the HALion Factory Library has just as much old stuff as the Kontakt Factory Library. The Hot Brass sounds like flatulence. The World Instruments are very mediocre. The best part of the HALion Factory Library are the Pianos and some of the Digital Synth stuff. Most people get Kontakt as part of a Komplete Standard bundle, anyway.

In any case, Factory Library stuff is never intended to be top-flight quality. It’s intended to be a usable collection of starter/bread and butter sampler patches.

If HALion Symphonic Orchestra sounded as good as Iconica, would anyone even consider buying Iconica itself? HALion and Absolute have the same issues vs. some of Steinberg’s other libraries in terms of quality and value proposition as a result of that quality disparity.


The issue with HALion’s ecosystem vs. Kontakt has nothing to do with the Kontakt Factory Library - which many professionals don’t even bother installing. It has to do with how much value exists in the ecosystem in terms of higher-end libraries being produced by both first and third parties.

With HALion, Steinberg is releasing content, but much of it is esoteric, experimental, or cinematic in nature. NI also has esoteric things - Light Trilogy, Arkhis, Playbox, etc. However, they also have a huge library of bread and butter instruments are of fairly high quality. A lot of this stuff has no equivalent in the HALion ecosystem.

In addition to that, lots of the “new HALion” instruments are ports of existing Kontakt instruments - often sold at a higher price. All this does is reinforce the idea that Kontakt is the de facto and the better long-term investment.

I have both Absolute [5] and Komplete [13 UCE], and I’ve still invested more in the Kontakt ecosystem while investing almost nothing into the HALion ecosystem (beyond Absolute upgrades) - because there is very little there that is even applicable to what I do. This, while already getting way more with Komplete than Steinberg would ever give me with Absolute. In cases where stuff does exist, it is often cheaper to just buy it for Kontakt - and far more convenient… dongle be damned.

IMO, the value is still mostly in the instrument itself, with its ecosystem taking a back seat.

You make that decision when you’re evaluating options. If you use Cubase, HALion competes better due to how well it works in that ecosystem. If you use anything else, Falcon is likely to outcompete it, as it more aggressively targets the synthesis market (vs. the sampling market with HALion). Most people don’t “actually sample,” these days. More people will benefit from the deeper synthesis feature set of Falcon 2, as a result.

Relax Man. I’m telling you. Seriously. :rage:

I’m not talking about “new sounds”…I’m talking about a COHESIVE SOUND SET. Like when you play a Montage…the sounds don’t sound like they came from 13 different vendors with 13 different sonic philosophies that just don’t mix together without a lot of work.

Plus Kontakt is NOT a Synth. It’s a sample playback platform with largely middling sound design. No reason to get all butt hurt over my opinion. I’m almost POSITIVE you don’t own any stock in N.I so fall back and chill.

SpiderMix

Well, Steinberg could take a subset of instruments/basic articulations from Iconica and put it into Halion 7 factory library, hence improving on bread and butter sounds from the get go.
The Jazz Brass in Halion sounds really bad and maybe Steinberg could either license a subset from a different Developer or record new samples for H7 themselves.

I’d say, lets be patient and see what steinberg brings to the table with Halion 7.

Yes I agree here. I’m shocked at how bad the “Hot Brass” samples are. It’s awful with cheese.

SpiderMix

Kontakt actually has synth engines built-in. How do you think they create the hybrid cinematic instruments for Kontakt? Light Trilogy, etc.

In any case, Kontakt doesn’t need to be a mega synth. Native Instruments has REAKTOR (and its myriad ensembles), Massive X, FM8, Super 8, etc. Like I said, most people are going to get Kontakt as part of a Komplete Standard package.

Lol at the extreme defensiveness in response to being called out for misconstruing things in the most intellectually dishonest manner possible. I won’t even validate that bit with a response.

As far as sampled sounds are concerned, the Kontakt Factory Library is actually in a better place than the HALion Factory Content is right now. Steinberg definitely needs to update the content, as much of it sounds extremely dated.

Trensharo…

Loosten your man panties dude. There was nothing “unintelligent” about what I was saying. If you can’t follow me…here is the recap:…HALION is probably the ONLY software equivalent of a Kronos we have on the VST platform. The quality of the samples in Falcon aren’t at the same quality level of HALion.

Still confused? How about this: : 1. Multiple Engines. 2. Deeply Sampled Bread and Butter Sounds. 3. Proper pianos. 4. Proper Strings. 5. World Instruments etc.

With ALL of them sounding somewhat like they come from the same instrument. Kontakt is all OVER THE PLACE from a sound design perspective. Sounds mixed at different levels by default. Lots of mediocre sample content. Emphasis on LOT and MEDIOCRE.

SpiderMix