Hi all,
I’m trying to recreate the tremolo beaming in the image (from Bliss’s “Lie Strewn the White Flocks”, mvmt 7 Finale). The red circle clearly shows the quaver/semiquaver beams appropriate for the 6/8 meter, and then the tremolo bars ensure that the pace of the tremolo remains constant over the change in note values. I can’t recreate this in Dorico.
- There doesn’t seem to be any way to beam different tremolos together
- There doesn’t seem to be a setting to switch Dorico’s tremolo note duration calculations to show notes of the half value on either side, rather than showing notes of the full value
In order to achieve anything like the below, I’ve had to use hidden tuplets to force quaver-like beams that can be tremolo’d. But the beaming across the two pairs of tremolos in a single beat defeats me. Can anyone suggest a workaround?
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Hi,
I was suggesting a solution for a similar case here:
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I’ve done some experimenting with this challenge. As you mentioned, using a hidden tuplet for the first two quavers was possible. The two semiquavers defeated me because, as you mentioned in your post: “There doesn’t seem to be a setting to switch Dorico’s tremolo note duration calculations to show notes of the half value on either side, rather than showing notes of the full value”.
However, I persevered and came up with one approach which I found could achieve the desired look, but is very fiddly and time-consuming.
- Turn on Voice Colours - this makes it much easier to work out what you are doing.
- Input the first four notes with their normal values, ie without the tremolo markings
- On a different staff, input the first two notes as 2:1q
- Enter the next two notes as quavers with 2:1q still active (just press 5 after doing the first two notes)
- Select the notes in the lower staff and press shift-R 32 Enter
The inherent problem with this approach is that the second duplet carries over into the fourth quaver in the bar. I found that when trying to do the following steps, copying and pasting became very awkward and things were overlapping.
- In Engrave mode, drag the beam (joining the notes in the upper staff) upwards by a few spaces.
- Still in Engrave mode, select the stem on one of the notes in the lower staff and drag its edit handle down a little. Do the same for the other three stems.
- In Write mode, select all of bar 1 in the lower staff and Copy.
- Up-stem Voice 1) do Edit > Paste Special > Paste into Voice > New Down-stem Voice (or Down-stem Voice 1 if it exists already)
You could possibly delete the notes in the lower staff, but I would keep them there in case you need to go back a few steps.
10. Select all of bar 1 in the upper staff and do Edit > Filter > Voices > Down-stem Voice 1
11. Press F to flip the notes
12. While the notes are still selected deselect the tuplet number(s) and rests and go into Engrave mode.
13. Change the Voice column index to 1 or 0, whichever puts the noteheads side-by-side.
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In Engrave mode, drag the connecting beam, adjust the vertical position of the tremolo marks and, when you have them about where they look good, select those notes again, reset the Voice column index, and hide the tuplet numbers and brackets.
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If you haven’t already deleted the notes in the lower staff, you could probably do so now.
- To do the remaining bars, you could try copying and pasting - make sure to have the duplet markings showing and selected before you copy - only what is selected will be copied.
Because of the overhanging duplet, keep a watchful eye on what is happening.
I would strongly recommend doing all of what I have described in a different document until you are satisfied that it is all under control.
EDIT 1: After having a very brief look at what @charles_piano has posted, I imagine that it would be possible to do what I did all on one staff rather than on two.
EDIT 2: After posting, I noticed that some of the screenshots have “wrong” notes. The concept is correct, though.
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Thanks, that’s enormously helpful. I shall try it right now and see how it goes 
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Good luck!
Expect problems caused by the tuplet which extends past the end of the notes. It might be possible to work around that by using a different voice at the half-bar point.
I think I have worked out a way of doing it, but it is very tedious and time-consuming and needs constant concentration.
I used a vocal player and a piano with the LH staff changed to treble clef. All three staves need to be empty. I have done the first two complete bars.
- In the top staff, input the notes with their normal values, ie without the tremolo markings
- In the piano LH staff, create a down-stem voice and enter the first 3 quavers’ worth of notes as described in my earlier post and apply the tremolos.
- In the same staff, create another down-stem voice and enter the next 3 quavers’ worth of notes and apply the tremolos.
- Select all the notes in the first bar of the LH staff and Edit > Filter > Voices > Down-stem Voice 1
- Edit > Copy
- Click at the start of bar 1 in the piano RH staff and do edit > Paste Special > Paste into Voice > Down-stem Voice 1
- Do the same again but filtering for and pasting into Down-stem Voice 2 - make sure that, before doing the paste, the insertion point is at the start of the bar being pasted into (the rests have been copied also and will be pasted along with the notes).
- If necessary, Flip the pasted notes so that their stems are pointing upward.
This screenshot shows the progress so far.
- Select the whole bar of notes in the top staff and use alt/opt + M to move them into the piano RH staff.
- While the moved notes are still selected, go into Engrave mode and click on Voice column index. When I did it that aligned the moved notes to being on top of the tremolo’d notes.
- From here on it is mostly a matter of dragging the tremolos and stem endpoints up and down in Engrave mode, as well hiding the tuplet numbers and brackets, and removing rests.
This is what the first bar of the piano LH staff looked like when finished.
To assist you, I have attached the file I was working on.
Bliss Tremolos.dorico (1.7 MB)
Here it is with the first 4 bars done.
Bliss Tremolos (2).dorico (1.7 MB)
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That’s looking rather exactly like I was hoping to get it! Am trying right now to see if I actually need any tuplets at all, given that it’s only the tremolo beams I need from the other voices – and also, in cases with dotted note tremolos, whether it’s possible to stop the rhythm dots from multiplying, as the rhythm dot consolidation option doesn’t appear to be having any effect. I’m guessing this is because the notes are not the same length in the background, once the tremolo is applied, but right now I’m seeing what’s in the image below.
Here is an alternative approach:
In the first bar, the notes for the first tremolo are entered as 16th notes inside 1:2x tuplets and the notes for the second tremolo are entered as 32nd notes inside 1:2y tuplets. In the second bar, a three strokes multi-note tremolo is applied to the 16th notes and a two strokes multi-note tremolo is applied to the 32nd notes. In the third bar using a different up-stem voice, the chord is entered as an 8th note and the last note is entered as an 8th note inside a 2:1x tuplet. In the fourth bar, the rests are removed and the notes are beamed together. In the fifth bar, the second and fourth bars are combined, the voice column index of all of the notes is set to zero in engrave mode, and the tuplet numbers are hidden. In the sixth bar, the tremolos are moved upward in engrave mode until the first and fourth stems have the desired length. In the seventh bar, the ends of the long 8th beam are moved upward until the first and last stems in both voices have the same length. In the last bar, the right end of the first tremolo and the left end of the second tremolo are adjusted until the beams in both voices are superimposed.
That one was trickier.
However, I managed to do it.
- Input this in up-stem voice 1.
Select the notes and hide the stems in Engrave mode.
Move them up 2 octaves to get them out of the way of the next steps. They will be moved back down later.
- In down-stem voice 1, press 5 (for quaver) then input this as 2:3e
- In up-stem voice 2, press 6 twice (for dotted crotchet), then input this as 2:1
Select both notes and press shift-R 22.
While they are still selected, move them up an octave.
- Select the notes which had been moved up 2 octaves and move them back down.
You will probably get something which looks look this.
- Select the whole bar and click on Voice column index in Engrave mode (you will probably need to deselect the tuplet number first).
This is what I got.
- While the tuplet numbers are still showing, select the whole bar (in Write mode) and press R to duplicate it into the next bar, then change the F sharp to an F natural.
- It is now safe to hide the tuplet numbers (in Write mode or Engrave mode) and also to drag the tremolo marks and stem ends to where you want them (in Engrave mode).
End result:
Bliss Trems 3.dorico (1.8 MB)
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Here is a simpler alternative:
In the first bar, the notes for the tremolo are entered as dotted 16th notes inside 3:6y tuplets. In the second bar, a two stroke multi-note tremolo is applied to the notes and the tuplet numbers are hidden.
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