I would like to have multi-note tremolos consistently placed between notes of different rhythmic vales, including for double whole notes (breve). I’m using settings for Multi-note tremolos in Engraving Options. In these options, I can set the position of tremolo lines for whole notes, but this doesn’t extend to double whole notes, which results in inconsistent layout and clutters up the score unnecessarily. I’ve tried moving the tremolo lines up (or down) in Engrave mode, but this doesn’t always work out due to how Dorico places the tremolo lines.
Note: I’m in 8/4 meter and will have double whole note tremolos for ~ 50+ measures, so I really need a consistent layout, vs fixing via Engrave mode in each measure.
In this example, the tremolo lines the LH in ms 18 with hole notes is fine, but see how the tremolo lines in the RH use a different layout position. I was able to manually adjust the RH lines in ms 19, but note that in ms 17 and 18, the start of the tremolo lines will conflict with the notes if I move it up. (I’m not sure why it works out OK in ms 19, maybe the extra voice and rhythms force a better layout?)
I realize that double whole note tremolos are an edge case and might normally be rare. And I could solve this by changing the meter to 4/4 so I don’t have any double whole notes. But I resist making musical decisions to fit the software, and it also seems that Dorico Engraving options should have a way of handling double whole note tremolos. Either make it default to the Engraving options set for whole notes, or add an option to extend whole note options to double whole notes.
Indeed, the settings for tremolos on whole notes don’t seem to apply correctly to tremolos on double whole notes. I’m thinking of a workaround: create tremolos on whole notes (using 1:2h tuplets) with the noteheads hidden (so only the tremolo remains), and enter the double whole notes as tuplets without tremolos (4:2w). That way, the settings apply, and you can adjust the tremolo vertically and even horizontally by playing with the voice index.
Indeed it appears that almost none of the Engraving options for tremolo placement apply to double whole note tremolos. They just don’t take effect. I’d expect the settings that apply to whole notes to equally apply to double whole notes.
It might be a niche case but I agree that it’s not consistent. Gould does stop at whole notes in her tremolo examples but that doesn’t mean that double whole note tremolos will never exist.
The only setting I find that does have an effect is the Inset tremolo lines for whole notes setting (under Advanced options), but that obviously will also shorten whole note tremolo lines and it won’t place the tremolo between the notes if that’s what you want.
Thanks so much. I would not have thought of this on my own. I appreciate the workaround and the way this would also allow for some horizontal adjustment via voice index. I will explore this soon.
Thanks Richard! I appreciate you taking this up. It does seem to me that double whole note should have the same treatment as whole notes. Hopefully we will see this in some future release notes?
That saves one step (though it doesn’t allow the horizontal adjustment I showed above).
I don’t know much about notehead sets, so someone might confirm or not that this is a good idea, but in this example it works:
Thanks so much for taking the time to provide a detailed demo - much appreciated. The only thing I couldn’t figure out is how to hide the tuplet grouping number and bracket. It went by so fast in the demo. I also found that with the hidden notes I should not use a note with an accidental, as the hide notehead doesn’t cover the accidental (seems non-intuitive - why would you hide a notehead and not hide the accidental with it? But since these will be hidden, there is no need to have an accidental.
Depending on your View settings, you’ll get these signposts (which you can hide, but which are very useful: if you need to copy/paste your tuplets, the signposts must be selected as well as the notes).
I use a keycommand for this — a toggle Show-Hide-Show with round brackets-Show with squared brackets, but I can’t remember if there is a factory shortcut for it or if you have to create it.
Since you (hopefully!) are going to be working in the code for tremolos, I have another small improvement to suggest. The default placement of multi-note tremolo lines puts the right side of the lines right up against any accidentals. I would expect there to be a small gap so that tremolo lines are at least slightly separated from the accidental. I realize I can adjust this via Engraving with the Accidental X-offset, but for extended tremolo sections that is an unnecessary hassle. I could also adjust the minimum size of the tremolo lines in Engraving Options - but I like the default sizing and fixing this makes some other tremolo lines too short. Could the layout engine be improved to make this cleaner so we don’t have to worry about it? (I do realize this is still a very minor issue.)
That one is already on our backlog (our ref: STEAM-10337), but it is more complicated than the problem mentioned earlier in the thread, so I am not sure when we will be able to address it.
Even just moving the tremolo bars left and right without any adjustment to their width would be extremely valuable. This is honestly one of the very few things I’ve had to do in my every day work that I can’t seem to find a good solution for. Thanks for all your hard work!
