Hi, I’d like to understand how multi stereo inputs work in WaveLab, especially in the montage. I have two A/D converters that I like to compare against each other when mastering, and I’d like to do that comparison through my insert switcher. I’d imagine that creating a Multi Stereo input would be the key, as so:
This way, I could toggle the A/D converter from my insert switcher. The issue is that, even though this input bus is selected in the audio track, it will only listen to the first stereo pair (MADI 1/2 in this case (RME ADI)), and it won’t pass the second stereo pair (AES L/R in this case (HEDD 192)).
If I swap the MADI 1/2 and AES L/R pairs the other way around when configuring the Multi Stereo input, the Print channel will pass AES L/R but not MADI 1/2. I hope I’m explaining the issue clearly.
Am I assuming the behaviour of Multi Stereo input completely wrong here? If so, is there another way to configure a multi-stereo input so that I can toggle the preferred converter from my insert switcher?
With my setup, my insert switcher can feed up to 4 stereo outputs at the same time so that I can just toggle the input in my mastering DAW to compare and decide which is best. All 4 of my ADC options are being fed audio at the same time, but it’s in the mastering DAW where I decide which one to monitor and eventually capture.
If your insert switcher can’t do that, I would imagine that you’d have to not only toggle which input WaveLab is looking at, but also adjust something on your insert switcher to change which ADC it’s feeding.
I can’t see how using a 4 channel input in WaveLab would work because at least worst, you’d be recording the dead air of whichever ADC isn’t being fed audio if your insert switcher can only feed one ADC at a time.
You must create four stereo buses and you should not use the multi-stereo input, which is used to record multiple channels at the same time. If I take your original picture, you should select stereo here.
Justin, my input switcher (DuTCH.audio IC2.1) can feed two outputs at the same time. I have indeed been toggling the ADC options from Wavelab, but because I like to do a lot of work with my screen off, I’d like to be able to make that choice from the switcher and not with my mouse in Wavelab, if you get what I mean.
Good point about recording the dead air of whichever ADC isn’t being fed audio from the insert switcher – my thought is that after choosing the preferred ADC, I would then toggle Wavelab to listen to only that channel, and not all of the ADC’s at once.
You must create four stereo buses and you should not use the multi-stereo input, which is used to record multiple channels at the same time. If I take your original picture, you should select stereo here.
I’m sorry, but I’m not getting it quite yet. Recording / input monitoring multiple stereo channels at the same time is exactly what I want to do here. Are you saying that Multi Stereo is the wrong way to do this?
I essentially want to have an audio track that can record / input monitor two stereo feeds at the same time. As it’s not possible to select multiple inputs for one audio track, I don’t get how creating four stereo busses helps?
Of course a partial workaround is to have two separate audio tracks that are input monitoring their respective inputs, and then I can hear the A/D difference when toggling from the insert switcher. However, this limits what I can do post-chain in regards of digital processing, as I’d have to always remember to make the changes to both audio track plug-ins. Potential for failure is high in this case
Yes, if I understand correctly what you want to do.
On one audio track, you can record one stereo feed at a time.
If you want to do that for two stereo feeds, you need to use two stereo tracks.
Each stereo track will have its own record input.
It seems you understand the possibilities and limitations.
Nice. I just got a Dutch IC2.1 that I plan to install in the coming days to replace my buggy Crookwood. To get back to feeding 4 ADCs from just the two that the Dutch can do, I added a KNIF Split but since you just need to feed two ADCs, the KNIF is not relevant to what you’re doing, just a side note for me.
Anyway, I still think you’re barking up the wrong tree trying to do this in any way other than changing the input on the record track in WaveLab from ADC1 to ADC2. While you can of course toggle and even automate the output changes on the Dutch 1C2.1, those outputs are always going to be hardwired to a specific ADC. No way around that unless you got some other kind of standalone router just for this task.
Attached is a screen shot of how my set up is in WaveLab. As PG eluded to, you need to make a stereo input for each ADC, and then on the record track, you need to manually choose which input you’re monitoring and recording. I do not see a way that this can be done using your Dutch insert switcher, or any normal insert switcher.
The reality for me is that I still use REAPER for my analog play/capture work. People are often surprised by this since I’m such a WaveLab fan but nearly 10 years ago now, back when WaveLab was not as good as it is now for the analog play/record loop, I started the process of having many custom REAPER scripts built.
One of those many scripts is a key command that cycles through all 4 stereo ADC inputs in REAPER so that I can compare in real-time while audio is being monitored (and eventually recorded) which ADC sounds best for the song. On top of that, I can automate per song in my session which ADC input is selected when a given song is being played or recorded which makes it easy to change the ADC per song, lock that decision in, and then record the entire album in one pass with the correct ADC input changing per song, among other things.
I don’t think WaveLab ever got the feature request to allow a key command to cycle through the input busses like REAPER can but if you really need to work with your screen off instead of just closing your eyes, I think the feature request for WaveLab to be able to cycle through the input busses with a key command is your best option.
Again, WaveLab is pretty good now at the analog playback/capture process compared to 5 or 10 years ago and many newer users of WaveLab are using it as is just fine, but as I always mention, there are too many little REAPER scripts I’ve had made over the years that I’m not ready to give up by using WaveLab for this task today. Maybe someday.
Thanks for your answers, @PG1 , this clears the issue. As to Justins recommendation to request a feature to have key commands for changing the input on an audio track, can you pick it up from here or do you need a separate post about it?
@Justin_Perkins, that’s exactly how I’ve been operating so far, re: choosing the ADC from the input busses while having the Dutch feed both of them simultaneously. Hopefully a key command can be added in an update!
Congratulations for the new insert swticher – I can tell you that you won’t be disappointed! The plug-in still has a few problems in Wavelab on mac at least, and the digital pots might sometimes overshoot while adjusting, but maybe that can be fixed in a firmware update. The Knif addon seems very nice as well, and you can be sure that it is 100% perfect, knowing Jonte
Thanks. I’m actually going to be using the IC2.1 as well as the IC1.1 connected to insert 8 on the IC2.1 so I can have enough inserts for all my gear without having to double anything up on the 1C2.1 inserts.
Dutch just released a plugin and firmware update yesterday that might clear up some of those issues you mentioned. If not, you should definitely report this to them so they can take a look.
Thankfully with how I work, I don’t expect to be changing the input or output gains, just selecting which inserts are in or out on a per song basis.
And to go back to REAPER again, instead of using automation or snapshots like most people do with the plugin controlled hardware stuff, I plan to put a Dutch Audio Rack plugin on each Item in REAPER (equivalent to a Clip in WaveLab) and I have a script that quickly and carefully puts all other plugin instances of Bettermaker and Dutch plugins offline aside from the one actively being played so that the hardware doesn’t get confused by having multiple active plugin instances open in the same session which doesn’t work.
You can see this old video I made of just the Bettermaker version HERE to give an idea of what I mean. The video is old but you get the idea.
I find this method to be better and faster than having to draw automation for settings or snapshots which when using snapshots is also somewhat limiting. Each song/item/clip just has its own plugin instance and you adjust the settings as you wish like you would with any normal all digital plugin.
So this is another prime example of why I still use REAPER for the analog/play capture stuff instead of doing it all in WaveLab now. REAPER is just way more scriptable for custom tweaky stuff like this.
I think WaveLab has tried but it still doesn’t quite come close to being able to automate putting a plugin fully OFFLINE like REAPER can. For these types of plugins, bypass and dynamic plugin processing is not enough. The plugin needs to go fully offline for the hardware to not become confused with multiple instances running in the same session.
