Me and my colleague in the studio upgraded from cubase pro 9 to Nuendo 12 and we were quite surprised to notice that this issue still in the software.
We export large amounts of sounds using cycle markers and we noticed that sometimes some clicks are rendered especially in the end of the file as if the audio portion was not faded out. We managed to “solve” by leaving a bit of silence at the end of the audio portion but that is not how it is supposed to work.
We had the same issue in C9 on 2 different maschined and also now in Nuendo 12.
We tested real time export and makes no difference, we also noticed that exporting an audio portion with cycle markers that has a fade out at the end doesen’t get exported with silence at the end of the fade out.
For example: fade out a sound - select - cycle marker - export - open in RX9 you can see “audio content” at the end where it is supposed to be silent.
Did anyone experienced this problem, for us is quite frustrating as require us to check everything in RX9 once exported.
Thanks for your answers
What is the source you are rendering? Low Freq sounds are really hard to cut off midcycle and if you want to render a cycle that means you will need to figure out a way to fix that prior to rendering (a loop or sound). I wouldn’t know how it can to that without 2nd Pass rendering (which is not yet in Nuendo unfortunately).
Hi thanks for your reply, the sounds are very random to be hones, but i am applying a fade out to the end of the audio portion, thecnically shouldn’t it bring the level to 0 ? i tried to reinport and export again on the same range and the issue remains. It looks like he performed the fade out correctly but some “ghost sound” gets rendered soon after.
This is what it looks like in RX
OK. It looks like the fade out is complete from that image. Do you have auto fade settings on 1 ms on the specific tracks as well? If that doesn’t work this is a bug I think.
Can you zoom in and see if it is really digital zero? Because I still see some low frequency energy. Set your RX view to Extended Log (Spectrogram Settings) and look if there is still low freq sound there. Most of the time the click/tick that you see is a DC offset due to a waveform not nulling.
Thanks for your reply, so i tested with autofades ad adjusted spectrogram on RX and the spike at the end get reduced ( i add some photos ). what i am not getting is why if i set the fade out at the end of the portion i’m not getting it silent when the audio portion is over, shouldn’t it be digitally 0? Even if you can’t hear any click or glitch i still need to manually apply fade out at the end in RX .
This is no Autofade:
This is 1 ms autofade
This is 10 ms autofade best scenario (if the things are actually is related)
PS: sorry but i can only post 1 pic a t the time being new
Thanks that is weird, i would say that 1ms should fade to zero completely but somehow it doesn’t. I think Steinberg should look into this. Perhaps it’s useful if you share them more details on your setup (pc/mac versions etc).
Well i think so aswell, as i said this was the same since Cubase 9 Pro i was using on mac OS Sierra and Hig Sierra. Now i have Mac Studio Monteray 12.4 and Nuendo 12.
Do they read here or there are some specific threads where to point this out?
Thanks again for your answers
There must be something i am missing, i can’t be the only one who noticed this, like a client asked me to fade al sounds and i was like what? so i checked and they are not reaching 0, nothing that can be heard obv. but still fade out should technically fade to 0 if , again ,i am not missing something.
can’t wait to realize where i’m being dumb… for now i still need to fade manually and is not funny, i have no other DAW at the moment to compare.
Try with different fade curves, and/or make the fade longer ( 1 ms is way too short, it should be at least 30 ms ). You can also put only one point and grab it down so it fades out quickly and has enough room to reach 0.
This is just basic physics here, your “issue” doesn’t surprise me. You simply don’t have enough samples in a time span of one millisecond for the fade to apply properly, meaning that the signal will still be oscillating at the time it reaches the last sample.
We can clearly see it on your screenshots, just increase the waveform vertical size to make it more obvious.
Also, it seems you don’t have any high pass filter on your audio, which means it is full of very low frequencies, so, your “issue” will be even more obvious under this circumstance. Just note the low freq rumble where the fade is supposed to be, it cuts out the rest of the spectrum but keeps the subs because the wavelength is too long and your fade too short.
This is technically impossible to “stop” such low frequencies in such a small amount of time…
So the definitive answer is, clean-up your audio or make longer fades. Or both
Thanks for your reply but your assumptions are wrong, i do have a HPF on every sound and the fade set on the audio “slice” (or portion as i called it before) doesn’t metter at all on the end result. What i am experiencing is the fade not happening until 0. Even if my fade is 1 second long. So maybe the Fade you create by dragging the tail of the audio slice isn’t a “real” fade or there must be a problem or i am missing something here.
I try to re explain, Cut a audio section , drag the fade on the end to create fadeout, select the portion and export.
IF the sound has not “stopped” by the time it reaches the end of the marker why is there a Spike there anyway?
Then your issue is simply the fade not working, there is no need for all these pictures…
Give me some time I will investigate it !
The pictures were needed because most of the time the sound is fading and you can’t tell by ear there is any issue except when it clicks at the end, but analizing the spectrum you notice this and theorically it shouldn’t be this way.
OK, so your source material (i.e. events) is faded. But how about processing/plug-ins on your tracks that apply after those fades? Dynamics for example often add some LF rumble. Do you hav a HPF at the end of your processing chain (well before the final Limiter of course)? Also no Reverbs/Delays on it that are not faded out? Can you reproduce the error with no processing applied at all?
Are you 100% sure that the cycle markers end exactly with the audio?
The reason I ask is that in some situations automatically generated cycle markers are quantized to frames (for example if you imported them from a CSV file) and the sometimes audio still overlaps a tiny bit. @Chewy_Papadopoulos once had a problem like this if I remember correctly.
Yes, I did… am not sure that issue’s been totally resolved with the new “markers from selected objects” function, but have been taking it on faith with good results thus far! Have not experienced any clicking. I always work with the default length auto fade, btw. Can’t remember-- is it 10msec? Whatever it is, it’s adequate (in my work, anyway).
Thanks Alex, This is so far something i suspected but had no proof of, yes i have various plugins and i assumed that considering the source material was faded to 0 the effects (no rev or delay or others “time based” effects) will never introduce “artifacts”. I do use EQ distorsions compressions ecc so that might be the “problem”.
For the cycle markers i also tried to set those a little bit longer that the sound to let some silence in the end and there is a certain point where this problem do not occur.
Last Work i had to do in fact i set all markers longer than sound and then cut the excess in RX.
Thanks again for your reply and i guess there is no way to skip the “RX quality check” …
Fades are always pre-inserts, as does the clip gain, and some processors (mainly EQs) will add more or less post-ringing, so as I already told above, if your fade is too short, this post-ringing will happen too late and there won’t be enough room for it to stop in time.
Actually, post-ringing can be dozens of milliseconds in duration, which is incredibly longer than your 1 ms fade, and the click at the end is due to the fact that the last sample isn’t at zero, because the signal is still oscillating when the rendering is over (and even then, a 10 ms fade may not be enough if the ringing is very long).
I still don’t understand why you absolutely want to make such a short fade, but at least you found the solution.
The 1ms Fade was just for test i tried with 30 aswell and the problem was way less. Now that i got the eq post ringing thing in mind i’ll set an autofade longer and try to leave the cycle marker not too tight on the asset.
The only problem is that all of this is not very controllable so i’ll need to do some tests, Clients wants the audio to stop when it reaches 0, so i need to be precise no extra silence.
BTW thanks you all for the help!