Multiple Licensing...READ only if you enjoy reading!

Hello my Steinberg friends, NOW don’t go and BAN me from this Forum for composing this “ODE 'de Miserables” in the key of probably 4 flat[ly] ignored points that no audience will appreciate and take it as an esoteric expression! :smiling_imp:

OK seriously…I have thought about this issue for months now and I feel a need to voice this concern, especially in light of how other Notation Software Companies “bless” their users regarding active licensing per purchase of ONE copy of Dorico.

You see, Sibelius and Finale allow one to install three ACTIVATED copies of ONE purchased copy of their software. StaffPad is unlimited in activating copies as long as it is installed on a machine that is logged in as YOU as the User of that PC.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears to me that Dorico users are allowed only ONE activated copy of Dorico at any one moment. I DO understand that another copy can be activated if the eLicenser dongle is inserted into a USB slot, BUT that still only allows ONE ACTIVE copy of Dorico!

The advantage I had as a Sibelius user in the Navy, I could have an activated Sibelius copy for my Military Band Student AND an activated copy of Sibelius for ME…as teacher…AND…an activated 3rd copy at home! Now, if I went on tour with the Navy Band to another city, I could just de-activate, say, MY “Teacher’s” Sibelius’ copy hence freeing up one seat and then activate a PC in the Pretoria University where we would have a concert series and might need to print copies…as most of you perhaps know…instrumentalists DON’T appreciate the work that went into composing or arranging a piece of music [and they are spoilt for they can just ask me to print another part of a piece of music] and they mislay their parts. HOW MANY A TIMES DID I FIND PAGES OF MUSIC SCATTERED IN THEIR REST BACKSTAGE ROOMS? BOY! Many times I felt like loading that musician in a torpedo tube and release him/her 500m off seal island where the Great Whites “play” with the seals! :smiling_imp:

The point is, I could activate a PC at UNISA, in case I had to play librarian with the “open” de-activated seat. Once back in Cape Town, I can just re-activate my “Teacher’s” PC again!

SERIOUSLY…is Steinberg going to allow only ONE activated copy of Dorico per single purchase of the software? If so…why not [at least] TWO activations for:

  1. Student --> Teacher

  2. For Myself in my Studio --> and PC at Home to continue a project (I know I can use the dongle, but if my studio PC is active, I can use TeamViewer to run Dorico if I need to look at a piece from Home)

  3. I have a Christian brother who rents a room in my house. He has a PC with Sibelius 8 on it. He is a Soloist singer (Baritone). He has NO interest in learning Finale, Sibelius or Dorico…he just want to SING! EVERYTIME he chooses a piece (eg “He shall feed His Flock” - from the Messiah) which many times is for Alto or Soprano, he wants me to enter the ENTIRE song into [at THAT time] Sibelius in MY Room…then I transpose it down to HIS voice range…and he can then rehearse his song on MY copy of Sibelius (which is activated) on HIS PC. NOW, I use Dorico, which means I CANNOT run Dorico on HIS PC [unless I purchase another license]…so I have to XML EXPORT the Dorico file and IMPORT it into Sibelius on HIS PC and re-edit the music for printing for his performances. TODAY…the Dorico XML EXPORT does NOT want to IMPORT into Sibelius! I don’t know WHY! Sibelius throws an “XML Validation Error”! If only Dorico would [at least] PLAYBACK without activating it, it would help a great deal…or even a free Dorico “Walkman” that plays Dorico scores ie…it only contains a button to load a “playlist” of Dorico scores, and a rewind, forward-backward scroll buttons, a play button and a STOP playback button. A “Delete ALL” button. The “Walkman” is for PC or Mac screen as the soloist (either vocal or instrumentalist) want to SEE their notes AND the VST should be loaded. I THINK [IF MEMORY SERVES], FINALE USED TO HAVE SOMETHING SIMILAR, “FINALE READER” OR “NOTEPAD”, THAT WAS BASICALLY JUST AN UI TO OPEN, PLAY AND PRINT FINALE SCORES FOR THOSE STUDENTS OR FELLOW MUSICIAN FRIENDS WHO DO NOT OWN FINALE SO THEY COULD LISTEN TO THE PIECE AND PRINT THEIR PARTS. SO…instead of the “Walkman” or “READER” idea…activating a 2nd copy would be easier…I should think.

  4. I “broke” 3 iLoks already thereby losing my licenses and it was HELL to purchase another iLok [not cheap] AND time lost for I could not do any work UNLESS I PAY for ZERO DOWNTIME features…goodness…paying for EVERYTHING! I was told by the iLok guys that the constant insert and removal of the dongle DOES cause spikes in the electronics of the device and the iLok POPS!!! Steinberg should seriously consider building a FREE “rescue” feature in the eLicenser Control Panel, should you insert the eLicenser and the eL Control Panel detects the dongle is faulty, it should communicate through the NET with the Steinberg servers and activate the “Soft” License on my PC UNTIL I had the opportunity to purchase another dongle and “Maintenance” can update the new dongle. OR…must I PAY for “ZERO DOWNTIME” for a license I already purchased but cannot use due to hardware failure that I did not build and now I must be “punished” by paying to use a license I already purchased?

OK…point nr 3 WAS NOT THE POINT (no pun intended :slight_smile:) of this post, but this post was actually the perfect place to mention it anyway. Dongles POPS!!! Believe me…I KNOW!

I actually seriously want to know the paradigm or reasoning WHY Dorico users are not allowed at LEAST two copies of ACTIVATED Dorico Instances? IF one CAN…PLEASE forgive my ignorance and please be as kind as to explain to me HOW I can then activate the second copy of Dorico.

OK…PHEW!!! I FEEL BETTER NOW! (Redbull and Prozac - “The Professional Musician’s Mind Laming Choice!”)

Keep well, God bless!
Hans :slight_smile:

Heh. Some months ago, I suggested that the quickest fix (without resorting to any technical changes) was simply to give each full license two activation codes. That way you could put one on a regular licenser (say, for workstation) and one on a soft-licenser (say for laptop.) The counterargument I received is what would prevent someone from putting their second licenser on another USB e-licenser and then selling/giving it a third party. Sooo… we’re left with a system that allows one activation can be bound to a single computer using a soft e-licenser, or to put the license (on a one-way trip) to USB licenser.

Personally, I think they should take the risk or force a requirement to register licensers to your account so they can’t be shared with third parties. (If they did that, a third party couldn’t use the second Dorico license for very long because it would be bound to your Steinberg account–it would require technical changes to their system though.

One advantage you get with a USB elicenser is that they come with a non-movable, “All Applications” 25 hour run licenser which will let you run any Steinberg product for up to 25 hours, buying you time get a new permanent license from Steinberg HQ. The don’t do this with the soft-elicenser, though, just the USB ones, but if you haven’t used up your reactivations, then getting the soft e-licenser back on line should be pretty easy to do over the web. (I like the little 25 hour gift on the USB elicensers… it’s a nice bit of insurance.)

Hans, my friend,
not blaming you on opening this new thread, but this topic has been already extensively discussed in the forum. Just have a look at this thread https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=127023&p=692723#p692723 and its many many follow ups.

To say the least, Steinberg is aware of your frustration and is considering a new copy protection scheme, but can not tell when it will come out; certainly not in the near future.

HI ULF, good to hear from you!

I don’t have a problem with the eLicening system. I just need Dorico activated on two PC’s at the same time…that’s all:-)

Keep well!
Hans

Hans, not to play devils advocate here, but I see an issue with your multiple instances of sharing your software with other people. Most people are screaming to get one license that works on their workstation and their laptop for THEIR use, not another license that can ultimately be shared with a 3rd party who didn’t pay for the software. This is precisely the type of thing that software developers do NOT want: one purchase buying and two people using. That is why Steinberg restricts Dorico’s use. I think you need to re-think some of your arguments here… Your Navy example should have never happened. You should have had a copy on each of YOUR computers for YOUR USE and your student should have purchased their own STUDENT-PRICED license.

Romanos…Romanos! BUSTA with “devil’s advocate”…for I so wish you were now in front of me as there are things I want to show and tell you, but I will say that I cannot STAND a butt-creeping fanboy who does not even have a proper profile on this forum…so I don’t even know WHO and WHAT you are to even consider advise from. But…I will attempt (being a Military man but also a Christian) to keep this rhetoric with you as civil as possible!

THAT being said…you cannot even READ properly for I DID NOT SAY that my STUDENT is using a computer with Dorico on it because I HAVE TO GET UP FROM MY PC AND LET HIM SIT IN FRONT OF MY PC TO TEACH HIM! For your information (which is NOT actually your business), I have ALREADY contacted Daniel enquiring about an extra license for my student’s PC! But allow me to take you for a little SA history lesson…

I am a lecturer of Stellenbosch University to teach Military Band students in order for them to pass their ABRSM and LRSM exams from Royal Schools. Now understand this very well…South Africa is broke. Especially our Defense budget. In 1995 President Nelson Mandela asked me to teach his young people and I accepted because of the beautiful way he treated me and asked me. BUT, it was an uphill since then!

I…Hans Nel…had to use my OWN salary to purchase two PC’s AND the software. The Navy refuses to buy me ANYTHING to do my teaching! So, at first, I purchased Finale (Academic Version). DO YOU UNDERSTAND ROMANOS, THAT ACADEMIC MEANS ONE HAVE STUDENTS!? MakeMusic did NOT have a problem if I activated a second license on the SECOND PC BECAUSE BOTH PC’s ARE MINE AND LOGGED IN WITH MY USERNAME AND PASSWORD. There is NO reason if another person ESPECIALLY A STUDENT AS I HAVE THE ACADEMIC VERSION used Finale!

The exact same situation happened when I purchased the ACADEMIC VERSION of Sibelius! I teach a STUDENT…MOSTLY BLACK students as they were the “unprivileged” people during Apartheid. And while we’re at it, I finished High School during the last TWO years of Apartheid, so I got my education in the NEW SOUTH AFRICA which made me wonder WHY Madiba did not let the black students pay for their education just like I had to. But, the SA Government has this policy of “put in post and THEN train”…and then they kick your white butt out of the system…in a legal yet forced unpleasant way. THAT is when I joined as a lecturer at the University while teaching at the Military School…and even through TeamViewer! So, I had to give my knowledge (which I PAID for) free of charge AND even purchase the TOOLS to do the job! BUT…what do YOU care living in countries where you can purchase the latest and greatest hardware and software without the risk of not being able to buy a bread! At LEAST…Sibelius cared and (read their forums), they know I used Sibelius and my 3 seats to use as I see fit to do MY JOB…which is most likely different than YOURS Romanos! BUT, then AVID turned greedy and went Subscription based…which meant I am NOT going to pay any $89 to get updates and bug fixes…and could not WAIT for Dorico to be born!


DORICO (Academic Version)…ONE activation…I cannot teach a student without getting up from my desk and let him/her sitting there and learn. Hence my question in this post.

So ROMANOS, why don’t you keep your comment to yourself, because it does not answer my question (but just aggravates me beyond my ability to act as a Christian) but only shows me yet another fanboy who has NOTHING to contribute except trolling my more that legit question. One, which I also PM’ed Daniel about.

LASTLY…AND I TAKE GREAT OFFENCE!!! LISTEN CAREFULLY…I…DO…NOT…SELL…EXTRA…LICENSES…TO…A…3rd…PARTY!!! You GOT THAT? If Sibelius gave me 3 seats…then I can activate it on 3 PC and use it as I see fit as long as it is logged in (Application Manager) with MY credentials and used for (in MY CASE) Academic purposes!

FINALLY…let’s talk about MY FIGHT AGAINST PIRACY IN CAPE TOWN!!! There are TWO *.dll’s floating around which activates Sibelius…and THOUSANDS of people (of ALL racial groups) are cracking Sibelius. I have warned them it is illegal, I have even notified AVID. AVID’s response it seems is “so what?”

SO ROMANOS, IN THE SPIRIT OF THE COMING SEASON, I AM GOING TO STAY CALM AND NICE AND REQUEST YOU TO STOP TELLING ME THINGS I KNOW BEFORE YOU WERE EVEN BORN AND LET THOSE AT STEINBERG, WHO HAS THE PROPER ANSWERS LIKE ULF, REMARK ON A QUESTION…A PROBLEM THAT IS REAL AND MAKING MY LIFE TO TEACH ABSOLUTELY HELL, LIVING IN A COUNTRY THAT GIVES ONE ZERO SUPPORT, YET EXPECTS RESULTS…EVEN IF I HAVE TO USE MY OWN MONEY!!!

NOW, HAVE A WONDERFUL XMAS ROMANOS AND THANK YOU FOR STAYING AWAY FROM ME!

ULF, Thank you, I read that post already…I understand I can activate a copy of Dorico when I insert the dongle, but I was just wondering if Steinberg would ever consider ONLY ONE extra seat per copy of Dorico…especially for the Academic Versions so that a teacher can at least teach a student without purchasing an extra license that will grab one month’s salary of mine. I NOT…well then so be it…it was just an honest innocent question.

Keep well my friends!
Hans

Dear Hans,

I appreciate that Romano wrote what he wrote — and I do not feel he was trolling or anything stupid like that — because this answer was truly interesting :wink: Calm down, and thank you for what you are doing in SA ! Happy Xmas !

Thank you Marc…I have always respected you and your advice is always professional (which is what I treasure in a musician), and I am calm now. I just asked a question that concerns me greatly and what Romanos wrote is general knowledge and made me feel that, after all the HELL I’m going through, many times single-handedly because as explained, I WANT our black brothers to learn, but nobody seems to care except to pirate stuff and grab midi files, adapting it and call it THEIR work. I want them to learn! Now I get an answer that does NOT address my problem, but reminds me of rules we know. You know how I desire a Windows Surface Pro 4…but MS don’t even sell it in SA…thus importing it will cost a house’s price! So I guess my StaffPad will just sit idly on my HD.

Marc…just thank you, for you are always kind and inspiring. Blessings to you.

Regards,
Hans

Hans, with all due respect, your response was wholly inappropriate. If you do not want the discussion that generates on a forum, do not post on a forum.

For starters, I am no troll. (I do find your label of “butt-creeping fanboy” a fascinating one… whatever that means. Spare me the explanation.) I am just another user with a genuine interest in seeing Dorico mature well. FWIW, I have both Bachelor & Master’s degrees in music. I am trained as an organist but have also studied harpsichord, piano, and voice (fluent in French, know a little German & Latin). I have sung in internationally-touring choirs (sacred & secular works), played in marching bands, as well as collegiate concert bands, and have sung with symphony orchestras. I am currently a professional organist in the United States and, like you, am attempting to use Dorico in service of my job. I too have limited resources. (Churches are hardly known for their generous budgets…) that means that I am also using a license I’ve personally purchased, on my own personal computers to aid my job.

In your original post you did not clarify that your military band student was using your computer as a result of direct lessons with them. In fact, in your roommate example, you specify that it is “[YOUR]” copy of the Sibelius license that he is using, in his room for his own purposes to boot. I stand by my original post that that is an abuse of a license. Your roommate should have his own license if he is going to be using the program for his own purposes. As specifically pertains to academic licensing, I can certainly understand why you would like to have access to a second live instance of the software, especially if you are trying to teach a student in the same room, side-by-side. That is indeed both understandable and a realistic request in light of the licensing scheme of competitors’ licensing practices.

To address the issue of academic licensing further, it is my understanding that academic licenses are reduced in price to help students (and financially-strapped faculty/staff & religious institutions) afford the software. You do not have to have students to properly qualify for such a license… you simply have to be a part (faculty/staff/student) of one of those institutions. Single, price-adjusted licenses are not intended for multiple users, but rather simply as a discount for the user in question since they qualify for the discount. What would bear me out on this, I believe, is the fact that all of these vendors also offer site licensing which is indeed intended for multiple users (and are installed in labs). I will reiterate that I could be misunderstanding this, but this is certainly the pattern of use I have observed in all of my years in professional & academic environments (over a decade). [One possible exception to this rule would be a public-use computer at a secondary school, for instance, that was for classroom use, and the school purchased one license. This would predicate, however, that there were not multiple people using the software, just one at a time, whomever they may be.]

To close, I hope we can keep this forum a little more charitable in the future. The fact that I posed questions or observations that contradicted your opinions does not mean I was attacking you personally. This is a ‘forum’ for discussion, after all.

Hi Hans,

While not officially supported, Staffpad should work with almost any pressure sensitive pen digitizer that supports the Windows Ink interface. I’ve been using it on and off with a Wacom 21UX here for some time. I also experimented with HP Spectre 360 (with a Dell pen) and it seemed to work as well, but only with an enormous amount of fiddling with drivers.

-T