Multiple time signatures in single bar

[wmbrink]

(New Dorico user, since late August; Finale since 1988)
I need the attached time signature use. Dorico file is also attached.The 2nd violin needs a 2/4 signature while the other strings maintain 6/8, then vln.1 needs 2/4, etc. This multiple time signature phenomenon is used throughout this piece (Bartok’s 4th string quarter, 2nd mvnt.)
I’ve tried everything I can to troubleshoot. This same anomaly occurs regardless of meters used.
I"m new to Dorico, but did a lot of reading, and cannot find a solution.
As you can see, the only way I can present theses bars as needed is to set all parts to local 2/4, then hide the parts which need to remain 6/8 and use hidden tuplets to notate their bars.
Notice that the system track no longer matches the bar widths. Also, there are multiple bar 78 as evidenced by assigning the rehearsal marks to the “real” bar 78.
Also note: when I originally posted a topic about missing rehearsal marks when using bar numbers, that problem was related to this change of meter.
I’d be overjoyed to learn that this is a neophyte’s problem and not a Dorico problem.
Any help?
Thanks in advance.
Bill
time sig problems Bartok IV, II.dorico (2.1 MB)

[meixner]

Didn’t we solve this already here?

Multiple time signature

To all of y’all that helped—I figured it out! 1,000,000 thanks for the help. BTW: very impressed with this forum’s rapid, informative and expert help. Can’t wait until my next Dorical fluommoxing, which I’m sure will be forthcoming. Bill

Or is the problem not the different time signatures but the measure numbering?

[judddanby]

@meixner

but the measure numbering

I think that’s the issue, yes.

[judddanby]

I know that the relationship of local (opt/alt - enter) time signatures and global ones can be a bit tricky.

Here’s a “needle-drop” in the middle of a similar thread that might shed some light:

Multiple Time Signatures with Different Barlines

“Global” time signatures (ones input by pressing Return to close the popover) apply to all staves, and if you input a global time signature after inputting a local one, the global one re-takes precedence. You probably need to input the 3/4 as local to each of the other staves - if you show the caret and extend it so it covers all the staves that need 3/4 and then input a local time signature by pressing Alt-Return to close the popover, that adds it to all those staves at once.

[Christian_R]

Hi @wmbrink, after some experimenting, I think (hope) I was able to correct your flow 1. I send the flow 1 corrected. Now the system track numbers aligns correctly and no duplicate bar 78, if you set the Rehearsal marks there (also I activated bar number on every bar to check).

Dorico file:
time sig problems Bartok IV, II- FLOW 1 CORRECTED.dorico (1.9 MB)

The problem was probably inconsistencies in the alternation of local vs. global Time Signatures (and some unnecessary local ones).

I tried a drastic solution. Here is what I did:

I deleted all the Time Signatures, including signpost of hidden ones. (the score was now looking very naked with no barlines at all , but I trusted the Dorico global/absolute counting system)
I then reconstructed the time signatures adding them (and hiding them when necessary) as following (having the original score open in a second window as reference):

• bar 1 global 6/8

• bar 76 global 2/4

• bar 78 vn2 and bar 79 vn1: local 2/4

• bar 102 global 6/8

• bar 113 global 2/4

• bar 115 global 6/8

• bar 129 global 2/4

I hope didn’t forget anything, and didn’t overlook changes in the end result of the score (didn’t have the original published score at the moment). (Sorry, take these as a starting point: I probably changed something in the layout options for temporarily better visibility, but you can re-set them as desired, and may be there are some mistakes here and there or I forgot to hide some TSs, etc…).

And: kudos for you great work on inputting all that!!

[judddanby]

@Christian_R

I think (hope) I was able to correct your flow 1. I send the flow 1 corrected.

Simply “wow!”, @Christian_R!

[wmbrink]

You did solve it but the solution didn’t last. As I added more bars, the numbers disappeared again. Lastly I noticed that the system track did not align with the bars. Then I noticed that the rehearsal marks were off.
That’s why I reposted this problem.
Bill

[wmbrink]

Hi @wmbrink, after some experimenting, I think (hope) I was able to correct your flow 1. I send the flow 1 corrected. Now the system track numbers aligns correctly and no duplicate bar 78, if you set the Rehearsal marks there (also I activated bar number on every bar to check).

This is entirely correct now!

The problem was probably inconsistencies in the alternation of local vs. global Time Signatures (and some unnecessary local ones).

What I think I learned from your corrections is that if I want different time signatures in a bar, and I need the barlines to continue to line up, and I want the rehearsal marks to use the correct bar numbers I have to use the global time signature for the whole measure, the hide it, then assign it LOCALLY to the part which needs to display the “extra” time signature.

I tried a drastic solution. Here is what I did:

I deleted all the Time Signatures, including signpost of hidden ones. (the score was now looking very naked with no barlines at all , but I trusted the Dorico global/absolute counting system)
I then reconstructed the time signatures adding them (and hiding them when necessary) as following (having the original score open in a second window as reference):

• bar 1 global 6/8
• bar 76 global 2/4
• bar 78 vn2 and bar 79 vn1: local 2/4
• bar 102 global 6/8
• bar 113 global 2/4
• bar 115 global 6/8
• bar 129 global 2/4

I followed your solution above, including deleting all the time sigs, and everything was “corrected,” showing the proper time sigs in the proper instruments.

I hope didn’t forget anything, and didn’t overlook changes in the end result of the score (didn’t have the original published score at the moment). (Sorry, take these as a starting point: I probably changed something in the layout options for temporarily better visibility, but you can re-set them as desired, and may be there are some mistakes here and there or I forgot to hide some TSs, etc…).

And: kudos for you great work on inputting all that!!
I thught if there was anyone who would force me to learn Dorico, it was Bartok. Only 96 more bars in this movement to do.

I really can’t thank you enough for the time, thought and clarity in your solution description.
Onle last question: why were the notes & rests colored in your version?
Bill
[/quote]

[Christian_R]

@wmbrink

I really can’t thank you enough for the time, thought and clarity in your solution description.
Onle last question: why were the notes & rests colored in your version?
Bill

Hi Bill, (for some reason, in your kind post the quotes and your own text formatting happened to be inverted…). At some point in my experiments, I wanted to check the voice assignment of some notes, and discovered that there in vn.2 there was a large amount of voices (much more voices than neede). So I switched the voice colors on, and forgot to switch off.

Maybe in a further cleaning up, you may want to reduce the number of voices assignments for vn.2 (but it is not necessary if “all looks nice” ) .
Here is what I saw:

[judddanby]

@Christian_R

you may want to reduce the number of voices assignments for vn.2

…or keep going, @wmbrink, and bring on some Bartók-à-la-Mormon Tabernacle Choir!

Thanks to you and @Christian_R for this excellent and “bookmark-able” Dorico lesson. It’s like reading Josephus and Aloysius conversing in Gradus ad Parnassum.