I might just be too close to it, because I’ve spent all day working with these two things, but I’m just completely flummoxed! I can’t quite figure out how to visualize these things … is it like writing on a rubber band (gum band), then stretching it out?
I’ve read that SDFT (Set Definition From Tempo) “imprints” metadata on the audio file (especially if you “Write Definition to Audio File”). But when I took one of those files and imported it to another project, it did not play at the tempo of the originating project. I can’t figure out where my thinking went bad here … if it’s Imprinted on the file, I guess the imprinted metadata doesn’t travel with the audio file to another project? Or …?
I believe that this SDFT is actually a type of Audio Warp? As is Musical Mode (not to be confused with “Musical Timebase”)? What is the difference in what happens to the audio file when applying one or the other? I tried to compare (applying each to a file, then changing the project tempo), and there were clear differences, but I’m not able to figure out reliably what those differences are …
Thanks for any insight … right now these are just “magic black boxes” to me, and I don’t deal well with that kind of situation!
I’ve read that SDFT (Set Definition From Tempo) “imprints” metadata on the audio file (especially if you “Write Definition to Audio File”). But when I took one of those files and imported it to another project, it did not play at the tempo of the originating project. I can’t figure out where my thinking went bad here … if it’s Imprinted on the file, I guess the imprinted metadata doesn’t travel with the audio file to another project? Or …?
I’d say that’s my thinking too. Metadata imprinted per Project as Cubase cannot tell in advance what you’re going to do with the data exported to other Projects.
If what you’re doing becomes general practise things could change.
Let’s say you have an audio clip with an irregular tempo.
Musical Mode deactivated for that audio clip.
Use the Time Warp tool (or the “Merge Tempo from Tapping” method) to align Cubase’s grid to the contents of the audio file.
Audio menu>Advanced>“Set Definition from Tempo” (using “Write Definition to Audio Files”)
You should now be able to import that audio file into another Project, activate Musical Mode for that audio file, and it should line up to the grid at the current song position.
Re: #5 - I think you have helped me understand where my understanding is flawed … I was thinking since the imported audio file has tempo metadata imprinted from the original project, it would therefore play in the new project at the tempo from the old project.
But I think you are saying that it will instead play at the tempo of the new project?
If that is the case, how would that be different than if I just imported it and set it to Musical Mode in the new project (i.e., without having done “Set Definition from Tempo” in the original project)?
Or maybe I’m not quite sure what “lines up to the grid at the current song position” means …
Because Cubase needs to know the original tempo of the audio (i.e. from the Tempo Definition… i.e. know where the “virtual bars” are) before it can line them up with the bars in the new Project.
Just to be clear, this is only really necessary with audio files with a varying tempo… you don’t need Tempo Definition if the audio file has a fixed tempo, so long as you enter that tempo in the appropriate field in the Audio Pool.
Well, it is something of an over-simplification… I’ve no idea if it embeds every bar, or (more probably) every beat, or maybe even a subdivision of the beat, but it does at least give an attempt at an explanation .
Hi - I’ve done some more work on this, and have a better idea of how things are working under the hood/bonnet, but I’m not sure I’m there yet.
Here’s what I observed:
In project 1, I tempo mapped a freely flowing piece, it had an average tempo of 105 BPM (as determined by the Beat Calculator). Then I “Set Definition from Tempo”.
I exported that audio event to another project. (I made sure Musical Mode was on in the pool in the 2nd project).
I varied the Tempo Track in the new project and used the Beat Calculator to figure out what beat the music was at:
Tempo Track In New Project… Actual Average Music Tempo Determined from Beat Calculator in New Project
120 BPM … 126 BPM
100 BPM … 105 BPM (as above, this is the tempo the music was actually played at).
60 BPM … … 63 BPM
I did run the Beat Calculator several times for each trial to be sure I was getting the right “Actual Average Music Tempo” in the right-hand column. I also checked my tapping ability using the click track, and those were spot on, so I believe the values in the right-hand column are accurate.
Can someone help me understand what is going on here please? The only thing I can see is that Cubase is assuming the original audio was played at an average beat of 100 BPM, and the resulting music tempo is scaled accordingly when the Tempo Track is set to other values. But
… so, in other words, you completely ignored the method I suggested earlier?
The Beat Calculator is of no use with varying tempi. Why did you even use it? Once you had created the Tempo Map (using either the TimeWarp tool, or the “Merge Tempo from Tapping” method, like I said earlier), you should have gone straight to “Set Definition from Tempo”.
What were you trying to achieve in the new Project? Just import the audio file, and place it where you wish, with Musical Mode activated for it.
No, that’s not true. We have exchanged some PMs, and it was a slight misunderstanding on my part. Alexis was indeed following my recipe (but additionally used the Tempo Calculator for his own reference).
First of all, I want to thank vic_france for his incredible patience and selflesness in helping me work through this. I’d been having a big problem overdubbing to an audio track that had pretty significant changes in tempo, and as a result of his help, it’s not a problem anymore.
Since I took up forum bandwidth asking for help, I’ll summarize for any meeks that might come down the same path later:
Create a tempo track for the variably-tempo’d audio (using Time Warp, Merge Tempo from Tapping, for example).
With the new tempo track activated, “Set Definition From Tempo” (Audio>Advanced>). I do this to a bounced version of the original audio, so I can then write the definition to the file and still have an unaltered copy around.
To be safe, export that Tempo track, so that it’s always available if “mistakes are made” later to the newly created tempo track .
Then “flatten” the newly created variable tempo track, most easily by just turning it off (so it is at a constant 120 BPM).
Playing back the audio now, it is at constant tempo, so incredibly easy to overdub to!
After overdubbing, put the overdubbed track to Musical Mode.
Then turn on the “variable” tempo track, and voila - the overdubbed bit tracks the original audio to the nanosecond, despite the variable, “freely-flowing” tempo.
I nominate vic_france for the Forum Teacher of the Year Award! Actually, I noticed yesterday --yes, I print out the more helpful forum posts and file them – he’s been helping me and others here for the better part of a decade - what a guy!!
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