Hi guys, today I want to talk to you from my heart and really do not wish to start a fight or arguments etc.
The problem is that, in the past, I could EASILY learn notation software, DAW’s etc…but somehow, I truly have difficulty visualising/seeing Dorico in my mind. Talk Sibelius/Finale/Notion, I SEE the software with all its capabilities, buttons, menus, dialogue boxes etc. BUT…Dorico is a MYSTERY. I just cannot get to “SEE”/Visualise it.
Let me try to explain…I am commissioned to arrange a 30-minute piece of music with 10 movements (flows obviously), the size of a Military band with A3 Score and A4 Parts.
Now HERE my problem starts already. Let me explain my thought timeline…
- Do I want an EMPTY first page to place a picture and other stuff? How do I start arranging on page 2?
- WHEN do I create the 10 flows?
- When I click on a flow, Dorico does not navigate me to that flow to start work on it.
- When I add an instrument, sometimes I get “…Empty-handed Player…” cards…whatever this is?
MY MAIN CONCERN… - As I enter music (which is ok and not difficult to do), I find all the OTHER features a nightmare!
- WHERE do I find the menu item to do a function? I start searching…menu item after menu item.
- I wonder, “Does Dorico support this function”…like for example: “Can I select a slur and paste it to all other similar phrases”. Goodness, now the searching starts. Hundreds of menu items…frustration starts…GO TO FORUM!
- Wait for answer…sometimes “Sorry, Dorico cannot do that yet” or “with genuine gratitude in my heart someone tells me how”.
- I wonder if I will EVER get to know WHERE to look for a function. How do the guys that answers my question know the answers?
- Then I discovered (THIS IS IMPORTANT AS I DO THE SAME FOR MICROSOFT AS AN INSIDER) that Dorico is HIDDEN in many ways.
When one looks at the software, one does not SEE THE FUNCTIONS! One has to FIND it in some MENU or one must know shortcut keys to add bars. But there is a HECK of a lot of menus (the attached pic only displays about 30% of the menus) and child menus! THAT is where (I think) the real power of Dorico exists.
So I came to the conclusion that when I want to write some music I:
- Must set up the score…but how?
a) I know what ensemble I want
b) I know I must add those instruments - Perhaps change the master pages, but how - and why? Do I HAVE to change/adapt master pages?
The flow appears. I have 10 movements. Do I create all those flows NOW? Or must I create each flow as I complete the previous one. I don’t know, so I created all 10 flows straight away. When I’m have flow1 active and I click on flow 10, I’m not taken to flow 10, so I have to scroll to that flow.
OK, so I have the flows. They need bars. But how does a rookie know the shortcut key to create more bars? You see…it is hidden. Same with time and meter signatures.
OK, so you start entering notes. THAT is easy as there is a flyout to the left that has those notes and stuff on it. There is also a flyout to the right that provides all the notation goodies like a double barline and pauses. That’s fine…BUT LOOK AT THE ATTACHED PICTURE.
There are a thousand commands that are hidden behind a line of menus. Probably most of us don’t even know what all these menus does and even if we do, what an old fashion way to work. Like I said, all those commands all hidden.
Now please hear me out and reason professionally.
Look at the Ribbon picture. With ONE view, I can see 3 layers of a main menu at one glance. The yellow is the main menu (under which everything is currently hidden in Dorico)…but on the ribbon, the 2nd child menus are constantly visible (Blue arrows). Clicking on some items in the 2nd layer open a visual 3rd layer.
I did a little test. I wanted to change a notehead into an x-head. That took 3 seconds. In Dorico I was not sure WHERE to start…so I assumed it would be in WRITE MODE. I went through the menus a found nothing. So I thought perhaps it’s in ENGRAVE MODE…NOPE, not there. Another 2 minutes later I got this brainwave of right clicking on the notehead and behold, there I found changing the notehead menu!
As you can see, many powerful items of Dorico is hidden from the user. Now it’s easy for the Dorico guys because they designed it. But there are those that really battle killing this beast.
I noticed the right-hand flyout panel is almost basically a ribbon! Surely something can be done to minimise some of the top menu items and add those powerful features in the ribbon on the right.
Forgive me for ranting on like this. Normally, I learn very quickly, but Dorico does not make sense to me. I waste LOTS of time searching menus and asking questions on the Forum.
I think what we need is someone the choose say “Beethoven’s 5th Symphony”. Show us from the start how to set up the score as published by a publisher. Show us what the master pages do and enter the piece page by page until the 1st movement is done. Then show us how the 2nd flow is set up and hen the 3rd. I’m sure a lot of the most used functions will be demonstrated and we can learn at last where all the commands and menu items are. Even setting properties. AND HIDING OBJECTS!
I have 2 weeks to finish this piece. I’m using Dorico because of the flow functionality…like I said, I have 10 movements. This will be performed at UNISA university. The question is, will I get it done?
Guys, please, my English is not that good and I KNOW all about the past fights regarding the Ribbon. We have FAR too many menu items already and Dorico is still in the beginning stages of its development. I look at Dorico and only see about 8 main menu items! The rest of all the power is hidden underneath the main menus.
Hi guys, today I want to talk to you from my heart and really do not wish to start a fight or arguments etc.
The problem is that, in the past, I could EASILY learn notation software, DAW’s etc…but somehow, I truly have difficulty visualising/seeing Dorico in my mind. Talk Sibelius/Finale/Notion, I SEE the software with all its capabilities, buttons, menus, dialogue boxes etc. BUT…Dorico is a MYSTERY. I just cannot get to “SEE”/Visualise it.
Let me try to explain…I am commissioned to arrange a 30-minute piece of music with 10 movements (flows obviously), the size of a Military band with A3 Score and A4 Parts.
Now HERE my problem starts already. Let me explain my thought timeline…
- Do I want an EMPTY first page to place a picture and other stuff? How do I start arranging on page 2?
- WHEN do I create the 10 flows?
- When I click on a flow, Dorico does not navigate me to that flow to start work on it.
- When I add an instrument, sometimes I get “…Empty-handed Player…” cards…whatever this is?
MY MAIN CONCERN… - As I enter music (which is ok and not difficult to do), I find all the OTHER features a nightmare!
- WHERE do I find the menu item to do a function? I start searching…menu item after menu item.
- I wonder, “Does Dorico support this function”…like for example: “Can I select a slur and paste it to all other similar phrases”. Goodness, now the searching starts. Hundreds of menu items…frustration starts…GO TO FORUM!
- Wait for answer…sometimes “Sorry, Dorico cannot do that yet” or “with genuine gratitude in my heart someone tells me how”.
- I wonder if I will EVER get to know WHERE to look for a function. How do the guys that answers my question know the answers?
- Then I discovered (THIS IS IMPORTANT AS I DO THE SAME FOR MICROSOFT AS AN INSIDER) that Dorico is HIDDEN in many ways.
When one looks at the software, one does not SEE THE FUNCTIONS! One has to FIND it in some MENU or one must know shortcut keys to add bars. But there is a HECK of a lot of menus (the attached pic only displays about 30% of the menus) and child menus! THAT is where (I think) the real power of Dorico exists.
So I came to the conclusion that when I want to write some music I:
- Must set up the score…but how?
a) I know what ensemble I want
b) I know I must add those instruments - Perhaps change the master pages, but how - and why?
The flow appears. I have 10 movements. Do I create all those flows NOW? Or must I create each flow as I complete the previous one? I don’t know, so I created all 10 flows straight away. When I’m have flow1 active and I click on flow 10, I’m not taken to flow 10, so I have to scroll to that flow.
OK, so I have the flows. They need bars. But how does a rookie know the shortcut key to create more bars? You see…it is hidden. Same with time and meter signatures.
OK, so you start entering notes. THAT is easy as there is a flyout to the left that has those notes and stuff on it. There is also a flyout to the right that provides all the notation goodies like a double barline and pauses. That’s fine…BUT LOOK AT THE ATTACHED PICTURE.
There are a thousand commands that are hidden behind a line of menus. Probably most of us don’t even know what all these menus do and even if we do, what an old fashion way to work. Like I said, all those commands all hidden.
Now please hear me out and reason professionally.
Look at the Ribbon picture. With ONE view, I can see 3 layers of the main menu at one glance. The yellow is the main menu (under which everything is currently hidden in Dorico)…but on the ribbon, the 2nd child menus are constantly visible (Blue arrows). Clicking on some items in the 2nd layer open a visual 3rd layer.
I did a little test. I wanted to change a notehead into an x-head. That took 3 seconds. In Dorico I was not sure WHERE to start…so I assumed it would be in WRITE MODE. I went through the menus a found nothing. So I thought perhaps it’s in ENGRAVE MODE…NOPE, not there. Another 2 minutes later I got this brainwave of right clicking on the notehead and behold, there I found changing the notehead menu!
As you can see, many powerful items of Dorico is hidden from the user. Now it’s easy for the Dorico guys because they designed it. But there are those that really battle killing this beast.
I noticed the right-hand flyout panel is almost basically a ribbon! Surely something can be done to minimise some of the top menu items and add those powerful features in the ribbon on the right.
Forgive me for ranting on like this. Normally, I learn very quickly, but Dorico does not make sense to me. I waste LOTS of time searching menus and asking questions on the Forum.
I think what we need is someone the choose say “Beethoven’s 5th Symphony”. Show us from the start how to set up the score as published by a publisher. Show us what the master pages do and enter the piece page by page until the 1st movement is done. Then show us how the 2nd flow is set up and hen the 3rd. I’m sure a lot of the most used functions will be demonstrated and we can learn at last where all the commands and menu items are. Even setting properties. AND HIDING OBJECTS!
I have 2 weeks to finish this piece. I’m using Dorico because of the flow functionality…like I said, I have 10 movements. This will be performed at UNISA university. The question is, will I get it done?
I ask you all with due respect NOT to attack and be nasty about my concern. Like I said, this comes from the heart and REALLY like Dorico. This baby is going to turn into a beast!
PS. I just had this thought/reminder of “PhotoPlus” whereby one can turn this help screen on or off. So, if I’m busy with a certain function, then “help centre” displays all kinds of relevant information, including shortcut keys, that I might need to know.
I don’t know…maybe I’m not clever enough to use Dorico YET (though I doubt it), but there are folks out there that shares my sentiments, let’s hear about it. Of course this is NOT an attack on the Steinberg team, hell, I have also come a long way with them since MANY years ago. We somehow have to find a middle ground and LEARN THIS SON OF A GUN!
In anticipation of finding and creating a KILLER notator that will stop other people’s attempts dead in their tracks!!!
PEACE!!